Outer Space

The place to discuss using and abusing the first edition Mutants & Masterminds rules. Rules questions, rules interpretations, house rules, and more rules.
Anthony
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Postby Anthony » Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:36 pm

Grendal wrote:
You make a compelling point. Of course that means if you have a good enough fortitude save that you can resist the effect with a Take 10, that would be sufficient.


You can't take 10 on saves. But yes, a fortitude save in the teens would probably do the job.

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Tagnik
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Postby Tagnik » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:58 pm

So as long as you're in the vacuum of space, you'd still need Immunity to Heat, right Grendal? But not cold?

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Postby Rune » Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:58 pm

Tagnik wrote:So as long as you're in the vacuum of space, you'd still need Immunity to Heat, right Grendal? But not cold?


You are asking the wrong guy, Tagnik

Space is cold, the side of you facing the sun at any given moment is hot, you don't get earths' rapiation shield [also known as an atmosphere], there isn't any air to breath, nor food and drink, and accidentally glancing sunward will blind a normal man, possibly for life. :shock:

Does that spell it out for you? :roll:
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Whenever somebody tells you about "the five hundred ancient talismans" or "the nine legendary crystals" or whatever, you can be quite confident that Saving the World will require you to go out and find every last one of them.

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Postby Anthony » Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:14 pm

Ok, an object in space will not have any conductive heat losses, but is subject to radiative heat loss, which for a human is about 700W * (1-IR albedo). In addition, it is subject to solar heating, which for a human will be about 600W * (1-visual albedo). It is nearly impossible to change the rate of radiative heat loss; the rate of heat absorption depends upon how much is exposed to the sun, so changing position (or having a dark side and a light side) will give some control. Most clothing and super-suits don't have an albedo above around 0.3, which means we can mostly not worry about albedo; figure on emitting 500W and absorbing 400W

A resting human produces about 100W, so with moderate lighting it should be possible to come fairly close to equilibrium. However, this can go out of equilibrium very easily: if you suddenly go up to a level of moderate exercise (600W, equivalent to about 500 Calories/hr) you're now producing 500W more than you can get rid of, which results in body temperature rising by a degree in 5-10 minutes. On the other hand, if you go into shade, either your body temperature starts to drop by a degree every 8-10 minutes, or you have to be active enough to make up for that 400W of sunlight that isn't coming in.

On the ground, none of this is a factor, because the atmosphere conducts heat away, keeping temperature under control. In space, it's a fairly significant problem, so yes, you want temperature control (both heat and cold).

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Postby Rune » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:03 pm

Thank you for your support, Anthony.
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Whenever somebody tells you about "the five hundred ancient talismans" or "the nine legendary crystals" or whatever, you can be quite confident that Saving the World will require you to go out and find every last one of them.

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farik
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Postby farik » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:07 pm

Anthony wrote:Ok, an object in space will not have any conductive heat losses, but is subject to radiative heat loss, which for a human is about 700W * (1-IR albedo). In addition, it is subject to solar heating, which for a human will be about 600W * (1-visual albedo). It is nearly impossible to change the rate of radiative heat loss; the rate of heat absorption depends upon how much is exposed to the sun, so changing position (or having a dark side and a light side) will give some control. Most clothing and super-suits don't have an albedo above around 0.3, which means we can mostly not worry about albedo; figure on emitting 500W and absorbing 400W

A resting human produces about 100W, so with moderate lighting it should be possible to come fairly close to equilibrium. However, this can go out of equilibrium very easily: if you suddenly go up to a level of moderate exercise (600W, equivalent to about 500 Calories/hr) you're now producing 500W more than you can get rid of, which results in body temperature rising by a degree in 5-10 minutes. On the other hand, if you go into shade, either your body temperature starts to drop by a degree every 8-10 minutes, or you have to be active enough to make up for that 400W of sunlight that isn't coming in.

On the ground, none of this is a factor, because the atmosphere conducts heat away, keeping temperature under control. In space, it's a fairly significant problem, so yes, you want temperature control (both heat and cold).


Well written, very clear and informative you can have gold star.

Even though Anthony made the point moot the reason thermos are made with a vacume layer is that they usually aren't. The "vacume sealed layer" is an attempt to get as little air as possible in the thermos but this usually fails. Gas is a pretty good insulator normally since the energy of the excited molecules have a greater distance to travel before they can share that energy with other molecules in the case of a human body even without the expulsion of thermal energy the radical shifts between hot and cold (based on only one side of you being able to face the sun at once) your own body will experience excruciating pain as your front and back expand and contract at different rates let alone what happens to the liquids in your epidermal layer.

Ulitmately it's up to the GM but as I said I include heat and cold immunties.

my $0.02
One man's hobo booze is another man's fiiiine sippin' wine.

Oh, and by the way, I don't use drawbacks in my game, just complications.

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Postby Batgirl III » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:16 am

Depends on the GM, and how often you'll be in space during the campaign.

Minimum - Preasure, Suffocation
Moderate - Preasure, Suffocation, Cold, Heat
Major - Preasure, Suffocation, Cold, Heat, Radiation

Flawing the immunities, specfically Cold/Heat [Outer Space Only] would make a good deal of sense for your typical Spacefarer, as I've seen Silver Surfer, GL, Thor all fly from New York to the Moon, but I've never seen them simply waltz around the Antartic.[/code]

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Postby the_masochist » Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:19 am

phst, what does NASA know about space? we obviously have never been to the moon, it was all an endorsmant deal by the granola companies, after all, they are also responsible for Chernobyle and N*SYNC...

::watches the vacant stares before steppping backwards slowly::


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