Throwing Mastery -> Exploit? ("free" EB)

The place to discuss using and abusing the first edition Mutants & Masterminds rules. Rules questions, rules interpretations, house rules, and more rules.
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Jerks
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Infinite Ammo

Postby Jerks » Thu Jul 28, 2005 2:10 pm

I think allowing the character to say that he has a near endless supply of ammunition on hand is a bit much. Taking inspiration from the rules, you might want to consider that the feat comes with the uses flaw. So he can carry 8 objects that he can throw readily. After that he has to pick up props from the surrounding area.

Really, this isn't too much of an issue and there should be plenty of things in the environment to chuck at opponents.

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Dex mod

Postby Rivalsan » Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:24 pm

I'm pretty sure that they're right and dexterity alone affects throwing mastery. Infact, if you do a search for 'Throwing Mastery' and pick the Official Rules forum only, you'll see it.

Remember - A super-strength character throwing an object maxes damage based on the object itself. STR 20 Super-STr 10 PL 10 character cannot kill somoene with a water balloon. Hardness is the top damage.

Throwing mastery allows you to do your NORMAL dex's bonus (I.E. up to 5) with thrown objects that are normally useless.. If I throw a paperclip at someone iRL (Barring getting it in their eye) they're gonna go 'Hey' not 'Ow!'

I'm sure that if you were to build BUllseye in M&M you'd buy him with PL in Energy blast and not even flaw it device (Since he can throw dang near ANYTHING - Its not a flaw if it never comes up!)
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Postby Batgirl III » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:01 pm

No, you'd use the Marksman power (GGtG) which allows you to sub your ranks in that power for the weapons normal damage. In the case of a Throwing Mastery'ed waterballon 'normal damage' would be your dex mod.

See the link to Baron's build in my above post.

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No way.

Postby Rivalsan » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:01 pm

Batgirl III wrote:No, you'd use the Marksman power (GGtG) which allows you to sub your ranks in that power for the weapons normal damage. In the case of a Throwing Mastery'ed waterballon 'normal damage' would be your dex mod.

See the link to Baron's build in my above post.


For a normal weapon, like a knife, which can be thrown at someone for 3 damage, sure. For a paperclip? No chance in heck I'd ever ever ever allow that. TOO abusive.
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Re: No way.

Postby Anthony » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:33 pm

Rivalsan wrote:For a normal weapon, like a knife, which can be thrown at someone for 3 damage, sure. For a paperclip? No chance in heck I'd ever ever ever allow that. TOO abusive.


How is throwing a paperclip for +3 damage any more abusive than an energy blast, which doesn't need any components at all?

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Postby tomorrow » Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:38 pm

I actually ask the Marksmenship/Weapon Master thing in official and Steve said it applies to improvised weapons too (including a paper clip)... that's why its a super-power... normal people can't kill you with a paper clip... but then again... they can't outrun lear jets either.

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Re: No way.

Postby Batgirl III » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:25 am

Rivalsan wrote:For a normal weapon, like a knife, which can be thrown at someone for 3 damage, sure. For a paperclip? No chance in heck I'd ever ever ever allow that. TOO abusive.


Even though the player has spent more points on the Marksman Power than if he'd purchased Energy Blast? And paid for the Throw Anything feat?

How is it abusive to take two abilties straight from the books, and combine them it what seems a very obvious way? I mean any basic discription of Bullseye will read "Expert marksman, who can throw anything with lethal accuracy."

This isn't some endrun arounbd PL limits, some legal-but-off-color combo like Incorporeal + Neutralize, and by my math is point-for-point just behind Energy Blast in terms of cost for damage.

A knife can be thrown for +3L (edit: thats some knife!), but can be tossed by a superhero with +10 Marksman for +10L.

But with +10 ranks in EB, you do more damage, more often, with less pp spent.

A paperclip can't do diddly, and can only be thrown, what two feet? But a superbloke with Marksman can throw it twenty feet, and do +4L damage with it! Wow! (I assume Dex 18, ymmv)

But with 2 pp spent, you can get a real pistol that does +3L damage, to 100', and have more shots. (Weapon 4; fl - uses)

A +10 Marksman with Throw Anything will hurl the knife or paperclip for the same amount of damage, +10 L, and has better range with a 'proper' weapon. But the Energy Blaster can do the same damage, at better range (extra range: sight), for less pp.

Yeah, clearly its far too abusive. Ban Energy Blast :)


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