Using objects as weapons

The place to discuss using and abusing the first edition Mutants & Masterminds rules. Rules questions, rules interpretations, house rules, and more rules.
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AtomicGorilla
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Using objects as weapons

Post by AtomicGorilla » Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:35 pm

I'm new to MnM, but the throwing rules seem a bit off. Maybe I'm missing something. But if you decide to throw an object, you can deal damage equal to your Str+Super Str, right? And if the object's hardness is too low or the defenders protection is too high, the object is destroyed.

But it seems like the object should have damage limited to its hardness. Otherwise throwing a baseball does the same amount of damage as throwing a tank. But I can't find a rule about that anywhere.

And another rules I can't find is can you use a long item as a "reach" weapon or a big item as an area of effect. For example, can Minotaur grap a 50' lamp post and hit people 50' away like it was some kind of polearm? Could he pick up a tank and smash a 20'x10' area?

Any help is appreciated.

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Post by Patriarch » Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:26 pm

The damage is your Strength bonus or twice the object's hardness, whichever is less. See IMPROVISED WEAPONS, page 112. I actually houserule this to the object's hardness instead of twice that.
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Re: Using objects as weapons

Post by The Trapster » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:32 pm

AtomicGorilla wrote:And another rules I can't find is can you use a long item as a "reach" weapon or a big item as an area of effect. For example, can Minotaur grap a 50' lamp post and hit people 50' away like it was some kind of polearm? Could he pick up a tank and smash a 20'x10' area?
It is not in the rule to get reach by picking up something. You'll have to come up with a rule on your own. For the amount of damage you use the IMPROVISED WEAPONS, page 112 again.
The Crooks! book fas a Reach Feat I think.

And area effect attacks with cars is general two. IIRC Steve was said that characters who are targeted with these thing should get a Reflex save to totally avoid the attack.
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Post by ReeboKesh » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:21 pm

OK I see a discrepancy with Improvised Weapons. According to pg 112
a charater with Super Strength +12 picks up a car and hurls it at an opponent. The car does +12 damage. If that same character punched his opponent he would do +12 damage. If he then picked up a Greatsword he would do +17 damage.
Anyone else see a problem here?
Maybe a system in which Improvised weapons do bonus damage equal to their size or weight?
Any thoughts
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Post by the_masochist » Sat Jul 02, 2005 9:37 pm


I agree completely, it seems to me that a throwing a boeing jet should do more damage then a 2 lbs piece of metal with the same hardness, However, keep in mind that a greatsword is meant to be a weapon, and the character problably has practiced swinging his greatsword more then a lamppost.

what always got me wondering was The Behemoth's attack (in the Crooks! book) regarding a thrown car. it does +25S. plus 10 super str, plus 5 for 20 str... where did the other 10 come from? and how is a thrown Jetta Only going to knock you out cold?

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Post by ReeboKesh » Sat Jul 02, 2005 10:01 pm

So any thoughts, should the car be added to the Damage. Maybe half it's Hardness to make it balanced but definately throw in the Reflex save to dodge.
Question does the thrower still need to make a ranged attack to hit? Does he aim for the opponents Defense or the area?
M

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Post by The Trapster » Sat Jul 02, 2005 11:44 pm

Mysterio wrote:So any thoughts, should the car be added to the Damage. Maybe half it's Hardness to make it balanced but definately throw in the Reflex save to dodge.
Nope. If the character is not strong enough to lift the car should get a plus to damage? If you are strong enough to tear a car like... . :!: :idea: WAIT... I"VE already done this arguement... Aherm! ... discussion before. So... I'll just stop here. Carry on. :wink:
Question does the thrower still need to make a ranged attack to hit?
Yes.
Does he aim for the opponents Defense or the area?
If you are calling it an area effect? Yes target the player, if you want to ensure that you have a full damage hit. If you aim for the area AND hit: the characters in the area roll reflex saves for half damage. Maybe they take full damage... maybe not. Pg 138
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Post by ReeboKesh » Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:24 pm

Mysterio wrote:OK I see a discrepancy with Improvised Weapons. According to pg 112
a charater with Super Strength +12 picks up a car and hurls it at an opponent. The car does +12 damage. If that same character punched his opponent he would do +12 damage. If he then picked up a Greatsword he would do +17 damage.
Anyone else see a problem here?
Maybe a system in which Improvised weapons do bonus damage equal to their size or weight?
Any thoughts
Mysterio
I'll use my own quote above. Why does hurling a car (2 tons of metal) do the same damage as your punch? Why does hitting someone with a steel girder do the same damage than your punch?
Maybe you've done this discussion before but I haven't and damned if the search engine will let me find the previous thread. Can you point to it.
M
Last edited by ReeboKesh on Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by The Trapster » Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:29 pm

A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle.

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Post by ReeboKesh » Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:36 pm

Thanks Trapster!

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Post by Prescient » Mon Jul 04, 2005 5:41 pm

What about a smaller character throwing something?

Does the damage bonus of an object stack with Throwing Mastery?

If you take throwing master does that allow you to replace your str bonus or add both?

I.E. Hulk picks up a small object (a crowbar) and throws it at the Thing. (in this instance he has throwing mastery) Does the damage of the crowbar (probably a +2 normally) add to the Hulks Dexterity bonus as the base damage or does the Dexterity modifier replace it, and does his Super Strength add to the damage since it is a thrown item?

Lots of questions in there. :D

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Post by Paragon Protector » Sun Jul 10, 2005 11:45 pm

Mysterio wrote:So any thoughts, should the car be added to the Damage. Maybe half it's Hardness to make it balanced but definately throw in the Reflex save to dodge.
Question does the thrower still need to make a ranged attack to hit? Does he aim for the opponents Defense or the area?
M
Well, I'm pretty new to the system, but here's my take.

If memory serves, when you normally deal damage with, say, a broadsword, the bonus is calculated as follows (subject to power stacking rules, natch):

Str bonus + Super Str bonus + weapon damage bonus

So if I have +2 from Str, +8 from Super Str, and +3 from my sword, my total bonus is +13 (assuming I'm level 11 or higher).

Now, if you're flinging a car, it says on page 112 that the *object* gets a damage bonus equal to the Str bonus or double its hardness, whichever is less. That would mean using the above numbers that the car would gain a damage bonus of +2 (from Str, which is less than 2x10, the hardness of metal)

So;

Str bonus + Super Str bonus + car(weapon) bonus.

(+2) + (+8 ) + (+2 ) for a total of +12, assuming the stacking rules don't cap you off at a lower number.

otherwise, as was pointed out, there's no point in using a car when you can use a sword. you've just got, in the case of the car, a really *big* sword.

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Post by The Trapster » Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:31 am

Prescient wrote:What about a smaller character throwing something?
I don't understand this question. I don't think size matters... for this. :)
Does the damage bonus of an object stack with Throwing Mastery?
No. T-Mastery creates damage and that is all it gets.
If you take throwing master does that allow you to replace your str bonus or add both?
This sounds like the same question... may not be getting the point of this.
I.E. Hulk picks up a small object (a crowbar) and throws it at the Thing. (in this instance he has throwing mastery) Does the damage of the crowbar (probably a +2 normally) add to the Hulks Dexterity bonus as the base damage or does the Dexterity modifier replace it, and does his Super Strength add to the damage since it is a thrown item?
Got it!
No. T-Mastery is about throwing for pin-point accuracy, not strength.
IMHO - it has to be this way. If it wasn't this Feat would be a Must Have for ever super-strong character. Can you name any character like that in the comics. (Superman... hah beat you! :wink: )
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Post by Prescient » Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:17 pm

lol, thx for the clarification.

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