Stunned / Clobbered

The place to discuss using and abusing the first edition Mutants & Masterminds rules. Rules questions, rules interpretations, house rules, and more rules.
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HG
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Stunned / Clobbered

Post by HG » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:51 pm

Here is something I think I would like to see changed. I thought about simply doing it as a house rule. I will actually no matter if its 'official' or not, its an easy change to make, and easily inserted into the book. Stun makes you flatfoot, allows others +2 to hit (thus if you have the same flatfoot as your defense your still effectively -2 defense). You are half movement rate and most importantly you cannot act. I think this is what made me not like the damage save as stun seemed to come up a lot (or enough) and when it did it made it almost mandatory to spend your hero point on ignoring stun. Plus Stunning Attack and Stun power were annoying, especially when used by multiple players on a single villain, etc.

There is something called Clobbered in Marvel D20. Its like a lesser Stun. You are half movement and -2 on all actions. I would thus do this with Stun in my games (and in MnM then)

Stun result makes you -2 on all actions, you lose your dodge bonus (so your flatfoot), you are half movement rate, and others are +2 to hit you. It is an important difference and one I didn't think of but wish I had. You can act, but are -2. Its not mandatory to shake off stun (or else sit there and take whatever is thrown at you). It is a negative result, it can help bring you down, but is not so 'BAM' in your face.

Marvel D20 also had a Stun result and it did function like Stun in MnM but they had this lesser result available. I played with it and I liked it so much.
I would just keep one result: Stun in MnM but change the can't act to -2 on all actions (die rolls) plus all of what it normally does.

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Post by The Trapster » Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:10 am

No one has commented for a few days. So... well if you like. I think you'll just be slpwing the game because all yout players will be doing mor math and you'll need to do more math. *shug*
Just feel free to drop the rule i you find it doesn't make thing more fun. :wink:
and when it did it made it almost mandatory to spend your hero point on ignoring stun. Plus Stunning Attack and Stun power were annoying, especially when used by multiple players on a single villain, etc.
Yup... superpowers can be annoying. And heroes eah having their own points when villains have only one also. Seems good to me.
BUT I don't have the same experiences with the game that you have and it might be that it doen't work for you.
:arrow: Hard to debate with your opinion. :wink:

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Post by HG » Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:13 am

I thought of another solution: spend 1 hero point per turn as normal. But if Stunned you may spend another hero point to shake off (but only for this if you already spent a hero point that round).

There is more I could say about it, but I'm sure you get the ramifications. It works well actually. So change the effect of Stun as I suggested or ammend the hero point rules. Either way stun is not so final or you could say there is a way to worm out of it (but that goes for heros and villains).

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Post by HG » Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:00 am

[quote="The Trapster"]No one has commented for a few days. So... well if you like. I think you'll just be slpwing the game because all yout players will be doing mor math and you'll need to do more math. *shug*
Just feel free to drop the rule i you find it doesn't make thing more fun. :wink:
[quote]

But the penalty only applies once, while you are stunned, you can't stack the penalty, so no the players won't really being doing more math, a -2 penalty is present in many areas of the game. Its a good alternate definition for Stun.

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Post by tesuji » Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:36 am

Well, stunned works for me. I find it puts the nite in "combat is risky" without being lethal. Players tend to not like losing actions and getting their character's stunned is something that gives them the "i got whacked" short of the actual "unconscious or dead" more serious side they can do little about.

So, I like it.

Now if you dont like it as much consider not removing it totally but instead moving it down.

Add a new level to the damage save called clobbered between HIT and STUNNED as a middle ground. Its hallmark is LOSE HALF ACTION. It makes sense tyo have a lose half action step between "take a hit" and "lose full action stunned", doesn't it?

I use different damage saves in different games but the one I mostly use is the following...

MADE SAVE = Ok but take -2 unfavorable circumstance penalty
FAIL 1 = Lose half action
FAil 2 = Lose full action but not stunned (aka DND "dazed")
FAIl 3 = STUNNED
FAIL 4 = "Scene kill" unconscious for scene
FAIL 5 = "Mission kill" = out for long time, dying possible.

I list them as fail 1 to fail 5 because the ranges vary by game and the damage effects i prefer. In some its by 5's just like the MnM book and in others its by 4's. it just depends on the specs for weapons and armor i use and the harshess of the genre i try to emulate.


In supers, I tend to not apply the -2 UFC penalty at all since bouncing bullets and smiling is a genre thing. in other games, i like having "you got shot" be a problem even if the armor stopped it.
My Stupid Rule: If I would feel stupid describing a rule to my players, I will not use that rule.

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Post by HG » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:10 pm

I like the idea of losing half an action.

I suppose I'm going to wait and see 2e. Also the way stun means something different for players and for villains is something in the back of my mind.

The only time I don't like stun is when a party of characters is facing a lone villain. In the comics spiderman is normally facing a single villain so he doesnt have all his buddies to help him if he does manage to stun Venom.

So I might simply add a line to the rules for Villain points, that if a gm designates someone as a 'master villain' (but only the master villain) then the gm can spend hero points to shake off stun even if a villain point was spent earlier or later in the round for something else. This way the master villain is limited like everyone else to spend 1 villain point per round except when shaking off stun.

This way the reality of gaming where combat is broken down in rounds and initative order, unlike say a video game.

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