insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

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insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby poodle » Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:54 am

I had an idea for a character. Normally he is intangible, when he tries he can form a body out of nearby junk. How to do this.. would an ap from alternate form cover this. I thought (just to make it extra complicated how would I do this if he his alternate form was a construct. Metamorph, seems the easiest way but I don't think he has an alternative personality when he is a a collection of junk.

Any ideas...
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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby Greyman » Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:44 am

Alternate Form will do it. Include an Immunity to Fortitude Saves, and a Disability Drawback to remove Constitution.

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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby FuzzyBoots » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:51 pm

I guess the question is, does he have Constitution when not an assembled pile of junk? And does it automatically go away when he's animating the junk? If he's some sort of psychic entity, I could see him still be targetable when manifesting in the pile of junk, in which case it doesn't make sense to add the "construct" setup to him because if someone gets past his Insubstantial, it'll affect him regardless.

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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby poodle » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:59 pm

I thought of another way to do it tell me what you think.
animate object-range touch, flaw;feedback. I thought this would represent him basically controlling the construct like a puppet especially if I keep the constructs intelligence at 0, but because he is controlling it personally he takes psychic damage if anyone targets the construct. Just an idea. Basically he is using the construct a little like a battle suit. I thought about the battle suit option but wasn't sure how it would work with an insubstantial entity, apart from buying strike and how do you equate the armour to not being insubstantial. ANy thoughts?
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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby Inviktus » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:29 am

Build it like Possession from UP, but use Animate Object as the base power instead of Mind Control.

Keep your mental stats and use the physical stats indicated by the ranks of Animate Object.

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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby poodle » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:42 pm

I thought about that, but the problem is that objects have no mental stat... Also it doesn't quite have the right feel if that makes sense. I pictured a collection of junk forming into a person instead of taking over statues and the like but you have given me a few ideas. What is the base cost of mind control and what is the base cost of animate object? How would you build it using animate object. I thought about it but was unsure how to get the feel. range=touch? but what else.
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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby poodle » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:44 pm

FuzzyBoots wrote:I guess the question is, does he have Constitution when not an assembled pile of junk? And does it automatically go away when he's animating the junk? If he's some sort of psychic entity, I could see him still be targetable when manifesting in the pile of junk, in which case it doesn't make sense to add the "construct" setup to him because if someone gets past his Insubstantial, it'll affect him regardless.


I guess I pictured him being largely unbothered when a chunk of metal gets knocked off. Maybe this just equates to ablative protection.
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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby Inviktus » Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:49 pm

You could express this power as Possession with Affects Objects Only (+0) linked to Animate Objects.

These each cost 3pp/rank, if you took the Feedback flaw you can drop it more. Note that you would need only 1 rank of Possession, since the minion is automatically affected. 2 ranks of Animate Objects covers sizes from Diminutive to Large. Total cost would be 8 pp.

The Animate Objects section in UP has a very useful list of sample stat blocks for animated objects based on size.

Effectively you creating a minion and possessing it. This solves the issue of what is going on with your body while you're acting as a pile of junk.

Since the effects are linked, the objects would never act on their own, so no issue of differing minds.

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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby poodle » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:35 pm

so it would cost me 6pp/rank. Also isn't the pp of the construct (e.g. the animated pile of junk) dependant on how many ranks of animate object I have?
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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby Inviktus » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:53 pm

poodle wrote:so it would cost me 6pp/rank. Also isn't the pp of the construct (e.g. the animated pile of junk) dependant on how many ranks of animate object I have?

The ranks don't have to be equal:

Possession rank 1 for 2 pp
Animate Objects rank 2 for 6 pp

As for costs, here is the sample Medium size one from UP:

Medium: Str 12, Dex 10, Con —, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1; Powers:
Immunity 30 (Fortitude effects), Protection 5 (Extras:
Impervious); Combat: Attack +1, Damage +1 (unarmed), Defense +1, Initiative +0; Saving Throws: Toughness +5 (from Protection), Fortitude +0, Reflex +0, Will –5; Cost: Abilities –36 + Skills 0 + Feats 0 + Powers 40 + Combat 4 + Saves 0 = 8 points.

As you can see, it's only 8 points. 30 points (2 ranks) covers everything up to size Large.

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Re: insubstantial to construct, how to do it?

Postby poodle » Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:59 pm

I looked at costs and tried to break them down I think the basic version of possess object would be 5 points. I will go with a variation of animate object though. Thanks for all the help.

I worked it out this way mindcontrol =2pp/r perception range. Flaw=distancex2 perception to touch range. Flaw=feedback. cost=1pp/3 ranks. possession=3pp/r therefore to merge with another human being costs 4pp/rank. 1pp/3r +4pp/r =3pp/r

animate object. 3pp/r flaw:range1 ranged to touch. flaw:feedback.1pp/r + 4pp/rank to merge with a construct=5pp/r

Maybe my maths aren't quite right. It seems cheaper to take possession with the affects objects extra. Even if you take duration to continuous and remove the feedback flaw it is the same price.

Is there an obvious problem I am missing?
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