Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Discuss the second edition rules of the World's Greatest Superhero Roleplaying Game. Check here before posting in the Official Rules Forum, someone might just know the answer already!
Tryptic
Groupie
Groupie
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:10 pm

Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby Tryptic » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:01 am

The title says it all. I have a character whose abilities revolve around creating force bubbles. I went ahead and built it as a Create Object ability with the Selective Attack extra (I thought it should be more than a 1-point feat to allow some people to pass through the force fields). He also wanted them to be impervious which I added as a custom extra. So we have a PL 8 Create Object with Impervious Toughness 8.

When he wants to encapsulate an opponent, is it just a reflex safe for the target or do you guys think I should have him roll? Furthermore, can someone explain to me how attacks on inanimate objects work? I'm reluctant to have an absolute limit such that the target either breaks out immediately or they can never break out at all.

Also, when he decided to create a massive wall in front of the party that allowed one-way fire through it, I was a bit hazy on how my enemies should break it. I had one of them use a slam attack on it which allowed him to shatter the force field but take damage in the process. I figured no attack roll was necessary as it was literally the size of a barn, but obviously an attack roll is needed for smaller ones.

-What attack DC should I require to hit a stationary object that is spherical and 6-7 feet in diameter?

-What if it is surrounding and following a character with a defense bonus of +12? Should I have the attacker roll against the character's defense with a bonus because of the large shield?
"The most important thing is that nobody was hurt. Except your opponents."
-Mia, Golden Sun 2

User avatar
kenseido
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 21184
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Kyle, Texas
Contact:

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby kenseido » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:15 am

Well he should definitely have to roll to hit, and the opponent should get a Reflex save to avoid being trapped. In reality, you should make it easier to escape than a Snare, since they are trying to get a free Snare out of this. Make them buy the AP Snare.

Stationary objects have a total Defense of 5 (Roll a 5 on your to hit roll) plus or minus Size modifiers. Being adjacent to it gives you +4 to hit.

Is the One-Way thing an Extra you let them add? It definitely should not be allowed for free.
-----------------------------
Kenseido's Menagerie of Characters

User avatar
Aerlwyn
Paragon
Paragon
Posts: 3412
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:16 am

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby Aerlwyn » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:16 am

Yes one way is an extra you have to put on it.

User avatar
kenseido
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 21184
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Kyle, Texas
Contact:

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby kenseido » Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:37 am

What book is that extra in? I didn't see it in UP.
-----------------------------
Kenseido's Menagerie of Characters

Tryptic
Groupie
Groupie
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:10 pm

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby Tryptic » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:26 am

I used the Selective Attack Extra from the core book. It feels like a bit of a stretch, but given the targeted nature of his shields I figured it was acceptable.

I do need to decide if this only means that he can allow players to pass through the shield, or if it allows them to fire through it as well.

So you think it should be both a ranged attack roll AND a reflex save? From a story point of view, he should be better than that but from a gameplay point of view it sounds fairly balanced...

What if he tries to create a large one over an area and then shrink it down to surround only one person? A reflex save for the initial shield (if they realize his intent and try to escape) and then an automatic capture when it shrinks?

What are the rules for trying to escape a snare? Are they different from attacking an object?
Last edited by Tryptic on Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The most important thing is that nobody was hurt. Except your opponents."

-Mia, Golden Sun 2

User avatar
Aerlwyn
Paragon
Paragon
Posts: 3412
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:16 am

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby Aerlwyn » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:34 am

Does seem to be selective might have got it confused with create from 3E.

Tryptic
Groupie
Groupie
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:10 pm

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby Tryptic » Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:46 am

Okay reading up on the snare rules again.

Technically it cannot completely bind the target since they can still take actions, but they can't interact with anything outside. Also there are no layers, there is only caught and not-caught.

Suppose I make it a snare with the Entangled flaw, meaning it cannot completely bind them. However I also add a Custom Extra(Encapsulate) which says that they cannot physically interact with anything but the snare. Mental abilities will still work outside of it, but any other powers must be targeted at the snare. Outsiders and area attacks can only target the snare itself, except the Selective Extra lets him and his allies target the captured person.

Actually, now that I'm reading these rules I really like the way M&M does snares. It rolls toughness saves as an inanimate object and can be broken automatically if their damage is high enough. I will assume that the snare is anchored and make him pay for limited telekinesis if he wants to move it around.
"The most important thing is that nobody was hurt. Except your opponents."

-Mia, Golden Sun 2

User avatar
kenseido
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 21184
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 8:57 am
Location: Kyle, Texas
Contact:

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby kenseido » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:23 am

Well there are a ton of logistics around creating a big sphere and then shrinking it down. What else is trapped in the big sphere, and where does it go when it shrinks. Players are generally master at explaining why their paticular trick should allow them to break the rules or not require a to hit roll or require saves.

No matter how "logical" their argument is, you shouldn't let them get away with it. For the sake of game balance, just say no.

And I would not let the Selective Extra be used in that way. I would equate what they are doing as slightly less than being Insubstantial with Affects Substantial extra, and charge them +2.
-----------------------------
Kenseido's Menagerie of Characters

Tryptic
Groupie
Groupie
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:10 pm

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby Tryptic » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:08 pm

Okay, that makes sense. Since this is a high-growth campaign and he'll be getting more PP to add to his character later, I'm considering making it staged:

+1 rank allows allies to pass through the shield
+2 rank allows allies to attack through the shield as well

So he will start with just the first ability and he can buy the second one later if he wants to.

As for the shrinking sphere, I think I've got a way to do it. He can buy Ultimate Effort(Sphere Lock) and if he spends a HP to take 20 on the attack roll, that's the description I give for him doing it. Or if he simply misses and spends a HP to re-roll I could use it. The description comes after the game mechanics and is subject to their results, instead of the other way around.
"The most important thing is that nobody was hurt. Except your opponents."

-Mia, Golden Sun 2

User avatar
poodle
Luminary
Luminary
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:43 pm

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby poodle » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:24 pm

It sounds like you want the snare to have the transparent extra+1 which means that you can attack the target normally.
cry havoc and let slip the poodles of war
Uncle friendly
My builds
Zephyr
Fixxer

Tryptic
Groupie
Groupie
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:10 pm

Re: Using Create Object to surround someone in a force bubble

Postby Tryptic » Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:37 pm

Yeah I guess, I was looking at that but I wanted to charge him for the fact that the ensnared character can't be targeted from outside unless the force-field users allows it. I should probably use the same rules as the defensive forcefield and tell him they CAN'T attack through the snare until he buys transparent. Since the Alternate Snare is the same rank as its Create Object parent, the numbers will line up perfectly when he adds the attack pass-through ability to his shield.
"The most important thing is that nobody was hurt. Except your opponents."

-Mia, Golden Sun 2


Return to “Mutants & Masterminds Rules (Second Edition)”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest