Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

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Man Drake
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Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby Man Drake » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:50 pm

So what I'm wondering is can I have an Array where the primary slot is an Ability like Strength of say 14 that looks like this:

Strength 14 cost 4
AP1) Strength 10 + Flight 2 cost 4
AP2) AP Strength 2 + Flight 6 = -8 + 12 = cost 4
AP3) AP Strength 0 + Flight 7 = -10 + 14 = cost 4

Now I know line AP1 is legal as its a different way to spend 4 points.

?1) Is AP2 legal since I'm essentially selling some of my strength back to balance the cost?
?2) Is AP3 legal since I have no strength and by RAW cannot move, but I do have flight so I can fly everywhere...

Thanks for your input

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Re: Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby kenseido » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:33 pm

The better way to do that is

Array 7 (Dynamic)
Base: Enhanced STR 14
Alternate Power: Flight 7 (Dynamic)

Costs the same, but you can do any mix of Strength and Flight.
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Re: Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby Man Drake » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:35 pm

kenseido wrote:The better way to do that is

Array 7 (Dynamic)
Base: Enhanced STR 14
Alternate Power: Flight 7 (Dynamic)

Costs the same, but you can do any mix of Strength and Flight.


Oh I know about that... and it seems I may not have explained my self well.

When I said "Strength 14" I meant spending 4 points to raise the default 10 Str to a total of 14.

I was just using the two other values to see if one was legal and the other not.

Either way it seems you agree with me that I can deprecate my strength to Zero, get 10 points back and then buy:

Base: Enhanced STR 14
Alternate Power: 14 points of something

and end up spending 5 points all together.


Thanks for speedy reply

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Re: Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby kenseido » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:25 am

Well if you buy your STR to 0, then you can't move at all when you Enhanced STR is turned off.

Enhanced Abilities are sustained, so it is legal to put them in an array.
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Re: Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby FuzzyBoots » Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:05 am

It would be up to the GM, but personally, I'd look askance on it. Part of the benefit of your base abilities is that you have them even if powerless and they remain at that base level by default with nothing activated. "Selling off" those points generally seems like a bit of a cheat. I'd probably allow more minor cases of it where someone becomes a little weaker for the sake of being more dexterous, for example, but not selling off all of it, and definitely not letting them sell it to debilitation.

There is a case of a non-strength character in canon using Flight to move, The Silver Scream. But, then again, she's Insubtantial too.

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Re: Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby Man Drake » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:27 pm

kenseido wrote:Enhanced Abilities are sustained, so it is legal to put them in an array.


FuzzyBoots wrote:It would be up to the GM, but personally, I'd look askance on it. Part of the benefit of your base abilities is that you have them even if powerless and they remain at that base level by default with nothing activated. "Selling off" those points generally seems like a bit of a cheat. I'd probably allow more minor cases of it where someone becomes a little weaker for the sake of being more dexterous, for example, but not selling off all of it, and definitely not letting them sell it to debilitation.

There is a case of a non-strength character in canon using Flight to move, The Silver Scream. But, then again, she's Insubtantial too.


Thanks both this is what I needed to hear.

This IS for an insubstantial character, I wanted to do this so when the Insubstantial II kicked in my useless strength points were useful for something. My example was a bit different than I was planning I made it simpler for the sake of description. I really wanted to do this:

1) Base: Buy Str from 10 to 14 (Human form)
2) AP: Str to Zero + Insubstantial 2 + Flight 2 (Gas form)

cost 5 points

Now that Kenseido votes that I would by RAW have to sell the Str to zero at character creation and take Enhanced Str 14 as the base, I'm wondering what other effects having Sustained Str might have.

Hmmmmm.

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Re: Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby FuzzyBoots » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:37 pm

Man Drake wrote:Now that Kenseido votes that I would by RAW have to sell the Str to zero at character creation and take Enhanced Str 14 as the base, I'm wondering what other effects having Sustained Str might have.

Hmmmmm.

For one, it would mean Concentration checks in situations where the strength is coming to bear (usually it's super-strength where this comes up).

You may find this ORQ on the Silver Scream informational.

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Re: Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby Man Drake » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:06 pm

FuzzyBoots wrote:You may find this ORQ on the Silver Scream informational.


Thanks for the reference.

I had forgotten all about Enhanced Attributes being Sustained for some reason, and the checks for maintaining them.

:?: So does that mean every time I'm hit in combat, for example, I have to make a check for my Enhanced Str and Dex?

Seems like an awful lot of builds have more than one Enhanced Attribute, this means a lot of rolling...

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Re: Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby FuzzyBoots » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:17 pm

Man Drake wrote:I had forgotten all about Enhanced Attributes being Sustained for some reason, and the checks for maintaining them.

^_^ Probably because they are, by default, Continuous. You specifically called out Sustained, so I answered for that.

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Re: Are APs that include deprecated Abilities OK?

Postby kenseido » Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:30 pm

That might be my fault. I said they were Sustained, but they aren't. My mistake.
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