How to handle expensive useless powers

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Umbral Reaver
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How to handle expensive useless powers

Postby Umbral Reaver » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:35 pm

I have run into some problems. For conceptual reasons, a character wanted to have morph with phantasm and additional save (will).

However, getting the save DC to a reasonable level makes the power far and above more expensive than a regular morph with no phantasm and no additional save.

Should that character be given a 'your power seriously sucks' discount?

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Re: How to handle expensive useless powers

Postby kenseido » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:05 pm

Why are you saying the power costs more? Alternate Save (Will) is only a +1 Extra for damage type powers; for other it is a +0 Extra. Phantasms is a -1 Flaw.
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Re: How to handle expensive useless powers

Postby Umbral Reaver » Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:41 pm

Not alternate save. Additional save.

Morph (humanoids) is 2/rank.

Making it phantasm (-1) and additional save (-1) makes it 2 ranks per power point.

At power level 10, since it provokes a save, the maximum rank is 10. That costs 5 points for a DC 20 save.

Normal morph with no save that works on every observer, including machines and unintelligent things like cameras, costs 2 points.

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Re: How to handle expensive useless powers

Postby kenseido » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:47 am

Well technically, Morph gives you a bonus to Disguise. Drop the Additional Save, just have the Phantasms flaw and your only need 5 ranks. Then you have +25 Disguise to anybody with INT 2 or better. They make a Sense Motive to resist, which is already Wisdom based.
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Re: How to handle expensive useless powers

Postby Umbral Reaver » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:44 am

Can the bonus to disguise from morph break power level caps?

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Re: How to handle expensive useless powers

Postby cochramd » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:43 am

Oh, definitely. The entire purpose of the power is to create characters with a bonus to disguise that is ungodly high for their power level. 10 ranks of morph gives you a +50 bonus to disguise. At PL 10, this means that a fellow PL 10 character could only see through your disguise on a natural 20 if he had his Notice skill and Wisdom stat at PL caps (15 from skill +15 from a Wisdom score of 40), assuming that you don't have any skill ranks in Disguise, a positive Charisma modifier and you don't disguise yourself as someone he knows.

The will save only comes up when someone has a reason to believe your assumed form is not real. It'll probably only come up when someone sees you doing something that whoever you're disguising yourself as wouldn't or couldn't do...basically, it's usually when you 'break character'. So you'll need some bluff and/or perform skills to back up your physical disguise....unless that's part of the character concept.

Also, Morph(any humanoid) with Phantasm and Will Save is 1 point per 2 ranks. 5 points for a +50 bonus is the cheapest bonus to disguise you'll ever get, even if it can be penetrated with a DC 20 will save every once in a while. Although with it being phantasm, you'll have to watch out for characters with protection or immunity against mental powers.

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Re: How to handle expensive useless powers

Postby Umbral Reaver » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:27 pm

I had the impression that the will save would apply whenever someone was affected by the power; i.e. had to roll vs the disguise check. That would make the power work as well as regular morph against minions, but against approximately equivalent PL 10 characters, would work half the time.

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Re: How to handle expensive useless powers

Postby kenseido » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:24 pm

Since that is a non-standard use of the Flaw, it would mostly fall to GM interpretation.
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Re: How to handle expensive useless powers

Postby cochramd » Sat Feb 25, 2012 7:04 am

It does say in Ultimate Power:
Observers who have reason to believe your assumed form is not real can make a Will saving throw to penetrate your disguise (DC 10 + Morph rank). A successful save reveals your assumed form as false, and anyone who communicates that information to others gives them a +4 bonus on their Will save or Notice check.


So yes, it's up to GM interpretation, but only as far as it's the GM is interpreting what "reason to believe your assumed form is not real" is.


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