Damaging Illusion question

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spikevampire
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Damaging Illusion question

Postby spikevampire » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:58 pm

Simple question...

How a "damaging illusion" works?

In particular... how are handled the will saves? (1 for each interval i think, unless there is a faster circumstantial reason to doubt of the illusion. So 1 for the first minute, then the second on twenty ecc)

And also, is the will save for the damage needed each round??
Giving that I'm holding the concentration for 10 rounds, does the enemy need to roll 10 times a will save against the illusion and suffer the sub sequential damage?

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby peregrine » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:37 pm

You don't make a will save against the damage. You make toughness saves, since the damage is psychosomatic, it's all about how tough you think you are physically, not how strong your mental defenses are. If you buy the illusion, you "feel" the stab, or the burn. However, even if you buy the illusion completely, if it's a standard fire, and you've got maxed toughness as though you can swim through lava, you're going to think that you're fine, no matter what.

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby spikevampire » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:41 pm

are you sure about the toughness save?

It is because it says like a damage effect? I can of course buy a will save extra with a +1 in that case, isn't it?

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby Greyman » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:01 pm

spikevampire wrote:are you sure about the toughness save?

It is because it says like a damage effect? I can of course buy a will save extra with a +1 in that case, isn't it?
The extra is a Linked Perception-Ranged Damage effect. So, yes, it's a Toughness save to determine the degree of damage taken or not. (Also, you don't need to take a second standard action to attack and concentrate on the illusion at the same time, you do both at once as they are Linked.)

However, anyone interacting with an Illusion makes a Will save, and won't be convinced by it if they succeed. Illusory combat is such an interaction. The extra states that anyone who thuswise overcomes the illusion will take no further damage and immediately recovers from previous damage delivered by the illusion. (... There's a kludge factor in there somewhere.)

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby spikevampire » Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:22 pm

Ok I should use an extra to change the TS...

I also think is quite unbalanced without a flaw (the healing after the disbelief)... Sure it is how sometimes works and of course leaves you more in suspance :)

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby FuzzyBoots » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:43 am

spikevampire wrote:I also think is quite unbalanced without a flaw (the healing after the disbelief)... Sure it is how sometimes works and of course leaves you more in suspense :)

Well, if it's psychosomatic, it's actual damage, at least from the technical point of view. Psychosomatic damage involves the body causing actual wounds to open up on the body. Amazing how much the body is a plaything of the mind, eh?

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby spikevampire » Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:27 pm

I could agree with the will save that heal the damage in the moment you disbelieve, but I'm unsure on how a toughness based damage (opened flesh) could heal itself after a successful save!

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby FuzzyBoots » Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:33 pm

Huh. I had thought the damage did linger even after disbelieving. So instead, it's just effectively pain, your body being convinced that it's injured. While still believing it, you're still more prone to damage from other sources (maybe the fact that you think your legs are bruised up means you're not dodging all that effectively), but illusion caused damage heals. Personally, I'd prefer to play it as actual psychosomatic damage with lasting consequences. It only makes sense if you're paying +3 for the Extra.

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby spikevampire » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:14 pm

I do agree with you... basically I have two choises:

- psychosomatic lingering damage with toughness save
- will save based mental damage with goes off the moment you disbelieve

:) maybe an AP would solve this internal conflict ... Thanks guys

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby peregrine » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:28 pm

As written, the psychosomatic damage with toughness save goes away when you disbelieve. No will save involved unless you make it yourself.

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby Doctor Devious » Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:24 am

Psychosomatic curing too! Who knew! ;)
Just how long can the "cure" stage be delayed? 5 mins later they realise they've were fighting the master of ilusion and legged it; does it suddenly get better then?

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Re: Damaging Illusion question

Postby spikevampire » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:54 pm

Strictly rule speaking ok psychosomatic damage goes off... but ... I am willingly to even put a +1 extra and not allowing it to happen if toughness (usually the strongest save), leaving this possibility to will save based damage...

of course it is my humble opinion ... :)


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