OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

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Brolthemighty
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OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby Brolthemighty » Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:50 pm

Alright, so I'm in a PL 7 campaign and I've got a Juggernaut/Hulk type Hero built up. Instead of going +atk, I've focused on his Unarmed Attack Save DC. For feats I've taken - Fast Ovverun, Improved Overrun, and Improved Trip.

I had built him thinking that the Ovverun and Slam attacks would have been more effective then just a straight Unarmed Attack (With a Str 34 - maxing out Str for the PL.) The problem though, is that doing the math on things...I just don't see it as that effective. Maybe I'm doing the numbers wrong, I don't really know.

Anyone able to help me on this? Anyone able to help me out on this? Right now I found my best tactic was to Shockwave them and then Unarmed attack while they're stunned.

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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby kenseido » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:07 pm

Yeah, Shockwave is a complete hose of an ability for a brick. The only drawback is that it affects friends and enemies alike.
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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby Brolthemighty » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:12 pm

Yeah, I thought so too. The only problem was that it's save was SO low, even with a Str 34 that was only what a 22?

I don't remember...is there a way to add knock back effect to Shockwave?

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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby kenseido » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:46 pm

Are you talking Shockwave or Groundstrike?

Shockwave is an Area Cone Damage effect with no Range and STR damage. So a 34 STR does +12 Damage, or DC27. Since its a general area attack, opponents get a Reflex save (instead of you making an Attack roll) of DC22 for half damage. As with all Damage effects, there is Knockback if the opponent is Stunned or better.

Groundstrike is an Area Burst Trip attack with progression at STR bonus rank.

It should be noted that General Area attacks are restricted to Power Level only, with no tradeoffs. So if your STR 34 character is in a PL10 game, the max they could do is Rank 10 in either effect.
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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby Brolthemighty » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:50 pm

I was talking Shockwave. All that is good info. So, what you're saying is that improved trip and overrun is inferior to shockwave and ground strike?

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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby kenseido » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:56 pm

Well those are single attacks, vs area effects of Shockwave and Gourndstrike.

Unless I miss something, I don't see where Overun does damage, because they either avoid you or you trip them. Seems like an odd maneuver if it doesn't do damage. I guess you get to Trip them and keep moving.
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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby Brolthemighty » Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:59 pm

Yeah, I don't see much bonus to tripping really. Other than to get past everyone to the Villian. Odd really....you'd think that getting run over by a 1750 lb man would hurt a bit.

Trips have no DMG attached to it....but how do you figure it out for a slam? Is it purely based on speed? So for me it'd be +4 for accelerated spd,and +5 for Unstoppable Rank 5?

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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby FuzzyBoots » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:18 pm

Effectively, Slam is present to give Speedsters a chance to do more damage. It's pretty useless for most powerhouse-type characters. Effectively, if you want something that looks like a slam but does good damage, you're best off Charging, possibly with a Power Attack if you have the option.

As regards Overrun, I agree that Trip is pretty useless. If nothing else, I feel like people should take damage for distance that they fall from tripping. For most characters, that's only a rank 3 (five feet of knockback basically), but it's still a save being forced, and it allows for more fun if you can trip someone off of a high surface.

As regards an actual trampling attack, that'd be Line Damage with something built in to let you wind up on the other side of the line. One way to do it would be a Linked Teleport. Alternately, Takedown Attack would work for moving down a line of mooks.

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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby Brolthemighty » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:27 pm

A power with the line effect, and the Mighty extra actually sounds more like what I was thinking. Now to just solve the issue of going through the target....and I'll have something like what overrun Should've been.

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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby kenseido » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:29 pm

I think Trail is a more accurate choice for Area, then Line. Line is more like firing a intense beam that hits everyobdy in a straight line - like Cyclops. There is no movement associated. Trail hits everybody you move past.
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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby Brolthemighty » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:06 pm

I would still have to move through them in order for that to work though.

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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby FuzzyBoots » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:36 pm

Brolthemighty wrote:I would still have to move through them in order for that to work though.

{nods} And with Overrun, even Fast Overrun, as a Full action, you're pretty much sunk.

There's some potential in Triggered for something like "when I do an overrun" but that's making you buy the full power, add a pp for Triggered, and spend an extra action, none of which really makes sense for the aforementioned Powerhouse mowing down minions.

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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby Brolthemighty » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:15 pm

So is figuring out how to make a set of Powers to emulate what Overrun and Slam should've been really the only options? Or does anyone have any options for adjustments to make them worth it? Maybe add on unarmed strike damage to Overruns?

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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby kenseido » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:24 pm

That might be overpowered. There is a Feat somewhere that lets you split you unarmed damage between damage and trip. When I have books in front of me, I will find it. But short of an actual power, that's about as good as you are going to get.
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Re: OverRun, and Slam effectiveness

Postby FuzzyBoots » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:18 pm

Alternately, like I said, apply falling damage with the trip. It's usually just a DC 18, but that's an additional toughness save while they're taking the Move action to stand.

For Slam... it is what it is. Like I said, a Charge attack is essentially the same as a Slam, and will let you do your full unarmed damage, which is probably up to caps.


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