Planet-busting in 2E

[Claire Redfield]

Does the damage scale remain roughly the same between 2E and 3E? Specifically, would planet-busting in 3E as described in that blog work roughly the same for 2E? If not, would any enterprising souls care to help a relative newbie figure out the numbers for planet-busting in 2E?

[FuzzyBoots]

Funnily enough, we get this question asked about once a year.

[Claire Redfield]

Thanks for the link! But I assume that the 3E rules for it won't work for 2E?

I suppose if I end up adopting the 3E damage scale, though, and I might (as seen in the General forum), then I could just use the 3E rules.

[UnkindMirror]

For one thing, Power Attack didn't apply to attacking stationary objects in 2e.

I don't remember whether the coup de grace rules applied to inanimate objects, so that could lose you the automatic critical from making an attack check against a stationary object. You could still roll a critical hit, but you wouldn't get one just for hitting the thing like in 3e.

And I seem to recall that thickness both increased an object's Toughness and the threshold for each Toughness check failure category.

[Claire Redfield]

For one thing, Power Attack didn't apply to attacking stationary objects in 2e.

I don't remember whether the coup de grace rules applied to inanimate objects, so that could lose you the automatic critical from making an attack check against a stationary object. You could still roll a critical hit, but you wouldn't get one just for hitting the thing like in 3e.

And I seem to recall that thickness both increased an object's Toughness and the threshold for each Toughness check failure category.

Hm, I suppose I would just have to adopt a more 3E approach to those things, particularly the last bit. It never struck me as necessary -- increasing Toughness should be enough to represent increased toughness, really.

I may well be swiping the whole Ranks & Measurements table anyway, which would include the damage scale.

Thanks for the input.

[FuzzyBoots]

On the other hand, I think 2E had the "applied force" rules where if you had an object offhand, you were considered to have a +5 bonus to your damage. All depends on how you want to look at it. I'm not sure where Steve is getting the Critical Hit unless he's considering this a Coup-de-Grace.

[Claire Redfield]

Would the Toughness even be the same for the planet in 2E to 3E? Have the figures for calculating object Toughness changed that much?

[FuzzyBoots]

Using Steve's measurement of 7901 miles, that's approximately 500,000,000 inches which means that it's approximately 20 ranks tougher than the base material of 5, so that's Toughness 25. Not sure where he's getting his 7... no power attack and no critical, so to "injure" the Earth if it's rolling 10 on Toughness would only take a rank 21 attack. To disable it would require rank 31. To destroy it would take 36. All possible numbers at a high enough PL, but well out of the range of your average PL 10 hero.

[Claire Redfield]

Wow, thank you! And that's for 2E?

[FuzzyBoots]

Wow, thank you! And that's for 2E?

Yup.

[Claire Redfield]

Thank you very much, Fuzzykins! ^_^

<3

[Black Mamba]

Not sure where he's getting his 7...

The 7 comes from the fact that base Toughness starts at -7 thickness. The Earth is 20 Ranks past 0 but it takes 7 additional Ranks to get to 0, for a total of 27 Ranks. You then add the base Toughness of 5 for a total of 32 Ranks.

And I also believe 500,000,000 inches would be +27 to the Toughness Check of 5, not +20. 2.5 million inches is 20, it takes 7 more Ranks on the table to get to 500 million.

2.5 million inches = 20
5 million inches = 21
10 million inches = 22
25 million inches = 23
50 million inches = 24
100 million inches = 25
250 million inches = 26
500 million inches = 27

So even in 2E you are looking at Toughness 32 - or in this case 5 Toughness and +27 to the roll.

[spikevampire]

very intresting thread!!!

I think it would be useful to destroy planets in a Galactic Setting!

By the way... we are discussing about breaking stuff... what about knockback breaking objects and unimpaired speed???

I think that the knockback bonus should be 10 more than the toughness of the object to not slow down during the rush...
I've read on this forum that the exceeding must be about 5 points, but I haven't got the underpinning logic!

Ex:
Knockback 10 / Obj Toughness 10 = 25-20 = Results 5 (-1 to the objects, it stops the knockback)
Knockback 15 / Obj Toughness 10 = 30-20 = Results 10 (break through, it reduce the knockback by its toughness)
Knockback 20 / Obj Toughness 10 = 35-20 = Results 15 (destroyed object, it doesn't stop the knockback that it's still 20)

[Claire Redfield]

So even in 2E you are looking at Toughness 32 - or in this case 5 Toughness and +27 to the roll.

So, if I'm not mistaken, if you wanted to destroy the planet in one go, Death Star/Frieza-style, you would need an attack with a damage of +42, right?

Yes, thread, arise! I need some more input on this because my darling Rachel wants a Dragon Ball game of all things, and this is how I tend to benchmark such things. Plus, it's fun to think about!

[Doctor Devious]

Funnily enough, we get this question asked about once a year.

Thanks for the link! But I assume that the 3E rules for it won't work for 2E?

Here's a short 2E take on planet busting: as you can see, most posters are looking to kill a planet at a much lower power level than the death-star's "ZAP!" approach.