Index of Official Rules Answers & General Resources

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Elric
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Postby Elric » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:56 pm

OK, I added a ton of links to answers that Steve gave today, since he was nice enough to answer a whole bunch of questions, most of which were my own. This is pretty exhausting. I have no idea how Steve answers 15 ORQ questions at a time, but I guess that's why he's The Man.
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Postby Q » Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:58 am

Elric wrote: I have no idea how Steve answers 15 ORQ questions at a time, but I guess that's why he's The Man.
like most higher level GM run characters - they have access to powers we don't. such as save post/post later, and probly a post all now button.

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Postby baixiwei » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:05 am

Something I'd like to see on this list, if someone can find it, is the ruling that cancels the limitation on variable power structures that they cannot have ranks or bonuses higher than the variable power rank. This ruling is referenced here, but I can't locate the original.
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Postby disasterdude13 » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:23 am

Elric wrote:
Khantalas wrote:Also, if I remember correctly, Telepathy does allow two-way communication, as you use Mind Reading to read surface thoughts.


That's a good point. I had never really considered that you could hold a whole conversation on "surface thoughts", but it could be reasonable (it probably would be 'more invasive' from a plot perspective). Of course, if Telepathy can act as Two-Way Communication already then for a +1 extra there's almost no reason to take Two-Way Communication when you could upgrade to Telepathy instead, but this wouldn't be the first place where M&M isn't granular enough to encompass different costs for powers where one is strictly better than the other.


Telepathy is the same as Two-Way Communication only as long as you don't consider that strait up Communication is a free action and reading surface thoughts with Mind Reading/Telepathy takes a standard action. You don't get to mind chat and do other actions at the same time, could easily become a disadvantage.

I wonder, if Telekinesis can grapple more than one person at a time, could one make Telepathy affect multiple targets (either with surface reading or mental grapple) if it were made Continuous?
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Postby Elric » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:29 am

baixiwei wrote:Something I'd like to see on this list, if someone can find it, is the ruling that cancels the limitation on variable power structures that they cannot have ranks or bonuses higher than the variable power rank. This ruling is referenced here, but I can't locate the original.


This is in the official errata to the core book . It isn't clear to me if this was changed after a specific question to Steve. It may have been changed in the core book after UP came out because Steve realized in creating UP that Variable effects couldn't do what they're intended to do with this limitation in place. But I could mention that this rule has changed in the index.

Edit- never mind, this has only been partially errata'd to the core book. Shapeshift was errata'd. Adaptation wasn't. I loaned my 1st printing core book to a friend; the 4th printing pdf doesn't have this restriction on Alternate Form but I seem to remember this restriction being there in the 1st printing.

Can someone with the first printing (you have this printing if the Costumed Adventurer is missing his feats) let me know whether Alternate Form in the 1st printing has the restriction that no power can be at a higher rank than your Alternate Form effect?
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Postby BigShotBob » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:56 pm

Elric, or maybe anyone else looking @ this thread can help me out? I created a character 4 my godson that uses Telekinesis and was wondering how without the Perception Extra a Feat of Attack Specialization[TK] or the Accurate Power Feat would work towards the Grapple check, or if they both do, which would seem better suited to fit this?

:arrow: Was searching the grappling threads but didnt quite find what i was looking 4 in this particular situation. :?

:arrow: Telekinesis 11(Dynamic, Heavy Load: 32 tons, Power Feats: Precise, Subtle) – 25 pp
Dynamic Alternate Powers: Force Field 11(Extra: Impervious, Power Feat: Subtle), Create Object 11 {Force Constructs, Power Feat: Subtle} – 4 pp

:?: This is the power setup and his base attack is +3. I want to add a +4 to his TK "affects" so would Attack Spec. x2 [TK] be incorrect to use, and if so then just use the Accurate[2R] Power Feat within the power?

Thanks in advance you guys. :D

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Postby baixiwei » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:54 pm

PF: Accurate and Attack Specialization (TK) would do exactly the same thing in this context: add +2 to your attack roll with TK. In the first case, it's an attribute of the power itself, and in the second case, it's an attribute of your skill using the power. So which is better suited would depend on the way you imagine the character. But really, it will make almost no difference to anything.

Neither one would be suitable for Grappling modifiers. For that, you'd need Attack Focus or Attack Specialization (Grappling). I would tend to think that although usually it's your melee attack bonus on which your grapple check is based, in this case it would rather be your ranged attack bonus, so that Attack Focus (Ranged) would increased your grapple bonus.

The following posts by Steve might be helpful here, and in my opinion are worthy of being added to Elric's list:

http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?p=160662#160662
http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=14095

Regarding your later question, I think the most appropriate way to add +4 to all of his TK effects would be just to take Attack Focus (Ranged). Some GMs might let you get away with Attack Specialization (TK) to apply to all the effects in the array, but others might consider that too broad an application of Attack Specialization, and require you to buy it separately for each power in the array.

Alternatively you could take Accurate on the base power, which would increase the power pool of the array, and you could then use the additional power points in the array to put Accurate onto each of the other powers in the array, without additional cost. It's possible that some GMs would consider this abusive, although I haven't yet heard anyone say so.
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Postby Elric » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:23 pm

baixiwei has it right, I think. The example of Attack Specialization (Unarmed) adding to the roll to hit while Attack Specialization (Grappling) adds to the grapple itself is instructive. So I'd say you need Attack Specialization (Telekinetic Grapple), or a Power Feat that is the equivalent, to add to Telekinetic grapples. I'd probably also limit a character's total grapple bonus on Telekinesis to 2x PL, which seems to be the intent according to Steve's recent answer to me.

But if you need to take Attack Specialization (TK Grapple) and Attack Specialization (Telekinesis), you're better off just taking Attack Focus (Ranged) which gets you the above bonuses and more.

Of course, in general using Accurate power feats on arrays is the most cost efficient mechanism of all, since you get your attack bonus for +2 for 1 pp and can then spend those pp on other things (since it increases the size of the array) when you're not using that particular attack power.

The second of baixiwei's links is in my index already; it's under Attack Specialization; putting it under Grapple would probably be a better place.
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Postby BigShotBob » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:51 am

Awesome! Thanks you guys, exactly what I was searching 4. I think I may have him go w/ the Attack Focus [Ranged] to cover the grapple modifier. I think his total grapple will be +18 so looks good for the PL 10 campaign. Thanks again you guys, and rock on w/ this thread.

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Postby Elric » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:15 pm

Hey, we've been stickied! I'm a little worried that I'll hit the "post length limit" for my first post in this thread, but I'll deal with that if it becomes a problem.

I posted this above and I think it might have gotten lost, so let me repeat it:

Can someone with the first printing of the core book (you have this printing if the Costumed Adventurer is missing his feats) let me know whether Alternate Form in the 1st printing has the restriction that no power can be at a higher rank than your Alternate Form effect?

This restriction isn't in the most recent printing of the core book and hasn't been officially errata'd, but I seem to remember it being there in the first printing (but I loaned my 1st printing book to a friend). Thanks for the help.
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Postby Paragon » Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:06 am

Elric wrote:Can someone with the first printing of the core book (you have this printing if the Costumed Adventurer is missing his feats) let me know whether Alternate Form in the 1st printing has the restriction that no power can be at a higher rank than your Alternate Form effect?

This restriction isn't in the most recent printing of the core book and hasn't been officially errata'd, but I seem to remember it being there in the first printing (but I loaned my 1st printing book to a friend). Thanks for the help.


Sorry, I was going to do this and forgot; since I'm a chronic early-adopter, I do indeed have the first printing, and that limitation is indeed there; its the third sentence of the second paragraph after the sentence "Once you choose your Alternate Form's traits, they are fixed and do not change." Right after that comes "No Alternate Form power can have a rank greather than your Alternate Form rank."

I tend to get that one confused with the similar original clause about Shapeshift.
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Postby Elric » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:03 am

Paragon wrote:Sorry, I was going to do this and forgot; since I'm a chronic early-adopter, I do indeed have the first printing, and that limitation is indeed there;


Thanks. That's the only rules-relevant piece of information that I've noticed that's been changed in subsequent printings without being added to the errata (I have also noticed changes to the feat descriptions on pages 58-59, but those aren't really the rules text- the rules text is what's in the chapter).

Finding discrepancies like this is tough, for obvious reasons. But I wonder if there are more things like this in the book. Personally, I think this gets at the fact that updating the errata to reflect every change that you're making in subsequent printings isn't practical. You're going to want to make minor changes on subsequent printings without having to update the errata to reflect all of them.

I'd expect people to be much more concerned by the rules-relevant information anyway; whether how Alternate Form works has changed is much more important than whether "Costumed Adventurer" has been spelled wrong. So while I'd say that you should definitely update the errata to reflect changes to Alternate Form in subsequent printings, the errata doesn't have to contain a litany of misspellings at all (or you could have two version so that people could find the rules-relevant info without digging through misspellings and the like).
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Postby BigShotBob » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:07 pm

Hello Elric. I was wondering if you could either point me to the thread or answer 4 me a question about a character's grapple total and knockback resistance.

:arrow: My Paragon's Stats pretaining to Grapple: Str 14[34] (+12), Attack Specialization-Unarmed(3R), Attack +2, +8(Blast/Unarmed), Super-Strength 12(Dynamic, Heavy Load: 7,208.96 tons), Enhanced Strength 20.

:?: Now would his total Grapple modifier be: +32 [+12 from Str., +8 from Unarmed attack bonus, then +12 from Super-Strength] Is that right or does the attack bonus have to be strictly "Melee" and not unarmed?

:arrow: Now for Knockback: Con 14[34] (+12), Impervious Toughness 10 , Toughness +12 (10 Impervious).

:?: Now according to the 2e Core it is "all" of the Impervious rank, but it doesnt say whether you still add 1/2 your Toughness bonus, are you supposed to? [-10 from Impervious only or should it be also +6 from 1/2 of my Toughness save for a total of -16?]

Thanks in advance Elric and everyone. :)

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Postby Elric » Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:43 pm

BigShotBob wrote: :?: Now would his total Grapple modifier be: +32 [+12 from Str., +8 from Unarmed attack bonus, then +12 from Super-Strength] Is that right or does the attack bonus have to be strictly "Melee" and not unarmed?


Strictly melee. The Attack Specialization (Unarmed) adds to your to hit roll if you try to initiate a grapple, but doesn't add to your grapple modifier directly. You can see in Steve's answer here that he says you can take Attack Specialization (Grappling) to add directly to your grapple check, so clearly Attack Specialization (Unarmed) can't give you both +2 to grapple checks and +2 to all unarmed attacks. Attack Focus Melee would add to both rolls.

:arrow: Now for Knockback: Con 14[34] (+12), Impervious Toughness 10 , Toughness +12 (10 Impervious).

Now according to the 2e Core it is "all" of the Impervious rank, but it doesn't say whether you still add 1/2 your Toughness bonus, are you supposed to? [-10 from Impervious only or should it be also +6 from 1/2 of my Toughness save for a total of -16?]


-10 for the 10 points of Toughness that are Impervious, and then 1/2 of the points of your Toughness that aren't Impervious, so 1/2 of 2 in this case for another -1. So your total Knockback modifier is -11.
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Re: Elric's Index of Official Rules Forum Answers

Postby razzputin » Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:01 am

Elric wrote:I'm just trying to create a useful resource that includes some fairly common and useful answers, since it can be hard to use Search to find what you're looking for on the ORQ forum, especially now that there are so many answers to sort through.


Mission accomplished
I just read through this entire thread and I found it to be very informative. I know the rules quite well and I learned a thing or two. For That alone I thank you. I'll try to keep an eye out for suggestions. Also I really like the format clear and to the point.
thank you, you've done a great service to the boards (this deserves to be sticky :D )
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