2-Weapon Style

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Asperion
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2-Weapon Style

Postby Asperion » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:13 am

A PC in my campaign would like to know how to use a two-weapon fighting style. She would like to either strike one opponent twice or two opponents in the same round. I do not know how to simulate this using MnM rules. Please give me any advice and assistance you can. Thank you all.
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Postby VIRTUE » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:24 am

Couple of ways

Say No its not allowed

Take the first attack and Autofire it

Get one of The Algernon books it has a combat feat for combinations I think its in Fires of War

Let them buy the power in Mastermind Guild that give additional attacks at 5 points per rank

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Postby Black Mamba » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:28 am

1: Purchase one of the attacks as a Move Action rather then a Standard Action. Then, as long as you do not move that Round, you can get a second attack.

2: Use a Surge for those times when the characte wants to make a second attack. Most of the time in the comics the two attacks are the exception not the norm.

3: Use the Extra Attack optional Power from the Mastermind's Manual.
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Postby albavar » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:32 am

Buy an alternate power array:
First but strike straight up to represent both weapons concentrated on a single target.
Second buy strike with Autofire so you can hit multiple targets, possibly even more than 2 with a sweep(?).
Overall costs just 1 more point than a straight up strike.

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Postby MLChance » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:33 am

Don't forget the Split Attack power feat.
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Postby Tipop » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:57 am

Feats:
Ambidexterity (not absolutely required, but a good idea)
All Out Attack (to simulate attacking one foe twice)
Defensive Attack (to simulate defending with one sword and attacking with the other)

Powers:
Strike - 3 points per rank, -3 for drawbacks
- Extra: Area
- Extra: Selective Attack
- Drawback: Area limited to reach -1
- Drawback: Power Loss (two swords) -2

This power lets you attack as many people around you as you can reach, but it is the most expensive of the three options here. An advantage is that you don't roll to hit, the targets roll a Reflex save instead, and take half damage if they succeed.

The disadvantage is if they have certain feats they could end up totally avoiding the entire attack. Still, this is a good minion-sweeper power, or when attacked by multiple low-Reflex villains.

Strike - 1 point per rank, +1 for feat, -2 for drawback
- Power Feat: Split Attack
- Drawback: Power Loss (two swords) -2

This is much cheaper, but only lets you attack two enemies at once (which fits your concept, so that's ok). However, the damage is divided evenly between the two targets, so if your Strike is rank 10, each one would be hit with a Strike rank 5.

Strike - 2 points per rank, -2 for drawback
- Extra: Autofire
- Drawback: Power Loss (two swords) -2

This one could be combined with your All Out Attack feat (and in fact, you could just buy that feat as a Power Feat for this if you wanted). This would simulate using both swords in a rapid, furious attack on a single target. Flashing blades whistling in deadly harmony, the whole Drizzt-schtick.
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Postby iKitten » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:40 pm

Really, it's just flavor. If you want to fight with two hands/fists/weapons/carebears/whatever, just say that's what you do. Effectively, it becomes part of the descriptor. Look at the Rapid Attack power feat speedsters can take. Essentially, it's an area attack with some descriptor magic thrown in for the speedster flavor, along with a few mechanics. Autofire? Harkens back to "DnD" and flurry of blows. Split attack is my ideal choice for this, but ultimately, it comes down to the description. If you say you throw a left jab followed by a right cross, that's what you do.

Mechanics-wise, extra actions are unbalancing to Mutants and Masterminds. You can take one, via Surge, but it is costly.

If that's not enough for you, impose the two-weapon fighting penalty on all characters with the appropriate descriptor to their attack oriented powers, and ask them to identify which hand/limb each attack originates from, requiring them to take ambidexterity if they want to lessen the penalty.

Not everything needs a mechanic.
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Postby Huntsman » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:44 am

In general, that is correct. You can use a descriptor to say your using two weapons. But in this case, the OP was asking for a specific way of doing something that requires a mechanic rather than a descriptor.
He wants to be able to hit one person hard or two people with regular attacks. The one person hard could easily be your standard attack with the descriptor of I hit him with two swords. Or it can be like other have mentioned with autofire which actually has the chance of doing "extra damage"

Autofire, IMO, is what best fits this need. You can split it between two or more targets or you can focus on a single target for an increased chance of taking him down.

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Postby Marshal Law » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:52 am

"Attack one person hard, or two people not as hard" is best described with the Split Attack Powerfeat.

"Attack one person Twice, or two people once" is best described with autofire.

Your player should bear in mind, though, that if you use the Autofie option, ifthe target is impervious to their normal attack, hitting them with both swords won't make any difference.
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Postby Emerald Flame » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:32 am

I think was addressed in a Gun-Fu thread... If my memory serves me correctly, after much debating, there was no clear "best" way of doing it. It all fell to flavor and what the player wanted to specifically do.
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Postby Black Mamba » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:04 am

Emerald Flame wrote:I think was addressed in a Gun-Fu thread... If my memory serves me correctly, after much debating, there was no clear "best" way of doing it. It all fell to flavor and what the player wanted to specifically do.

Yes. That is about all there is to it. Whether you Surge, Split Attack, Autofire, change the Action time, or use the optional Extra Attacks Power it really just comes down to what best fits your style of play.
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Postby Paragon » Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:41 am

Black Mamba wrote:
Emerald Flame wrote:I think was addressed in a Gun-Fu thread... If my memory serves me correctly, after much debating, there was no clear "best" way of doing it. It all fell to flavor and what the player wanted to specifically do.

Yes. That is about all there is to it. Whether you Surge, Split Attack, Autofire, change the Action time, or use the optional Extra Attacks Power it really just comes down to what best fits your style of play.


Well, and what the GM is comfortable with; I'd have warning bells going off immediately at someone buying down the action time on attack powers, for example.

Edit: I suppose you could be including that in "style of play", but it wasn't self-evident.
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Postby Tipop » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:11 am

Well, buying down your secondary attack to Move action makes sense in the D&D 3.5 way of things. You can make one attack and a move action, or make multiple attacks as a full-round action.
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Postby farik » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:23 am

Tipop wrote:Well, buying down your secondary attack to Move action makes sense in the D&D 3.5 way of things. You can make one attack and a move action, or make multiple attacks as a full-round action.


Just like the perception to personal range discussion it is possible.

Frankly I liked 1e's clear cut "only 1 attack per rd" guideline. In fact I've started treating "aura" effects as combined attacks with the player's strength in our games just so there is only a single save.
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Oh, and by the way, I don't use drawbacks in my game, just complications.

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Postby Paragon » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:48 am

Tipop wrote:Well, buying down your secondary attack to Move action makes sense in the D&D 3.5 way of things. You can make one attack and a move action, or make multiple attacks as a full-round action.


Yeah, but that works in most versions of D20 because, frankly, most individual attacks by player type characters are relatively trivial; in M&M, there's so much benefit to forcing a second save that its a much stronger benefit--stronger than a single Extra conveys, IMO.
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