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SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

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SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby Spectrum » Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:16 pm

Hi folks,

An RL friend with a horrible work schedule (two weeks of 16+ hr days followed by a week off) asked me to start a character thread for him until he could get an account. He also asked that I put his characters up so that people could rip the character part so that he could learn how the mechanics work a little bit better.

I'm also forwarding his thanks in advance!

edit: He's stated that the account that he wants is the above. Sorry for any confusion.

---------------------
Jonah Grimm

Thumbnail of character concept: Jonah Grimm. Jonah was a delusional paranoid schizophrenic. Spent many years in an insane asylum lost in his own little world, and was labelled a hopeless case by everyone who tried to treat him. Drugs, conselling, outright psychic manipulation with mental powers, none of it helped. But by sheer will, he fought his way out of his little nightmare world, and woke up to reality... by learning to share his insanity. Jonah bleeds off his delusions into the minds of everyone around him, and that allows him to cope. He escaped from the asylum, and fights the good fight to recompense humanity for the insanity that he leaks.

Motivation: recompense
Complications:
Accident-causing
Hatred: emotional/irrational evil (don't cop an insanity plea!)
Enemies: various do-gooder shrinks and mentalists
Quirk/secret: struggles with delusional paranoia


Str 0
Sta 0
Agil 0
Dex 5
Fight 0
Int 0
Aware 20
Pre 0

Total stat points: 50


Defenses:

Dodge 6
Tough 5
Fort 0
Parry 5
Will 20

Total points spent on defenses: 10


Skills:

Investigation 2
Vehicles 2
Stealth 8

Total points spent on skills: 6


Advantages:

Fearless 1
Luck 5
Instant Up 1
Hide in Plain Sight 1
All-out Attack 1
Ranged attacks +3

Total: points spent on advantages: 13


Powers:

Concealment, all senses, partial (-1) 10
Luck control (force opponent re-roll) 3

Detect Minds (1), ranged +1, Accurate +2, Accute +1, Analytical +1, Counters Concealment +5, Extended (10,000 ft) 3, Radius 1, Tracking 1. Total =16 points

Danger Sense 1
Sight Counters Illusion 2

Environment: Visibility (minor delusions) (-2 perception rolls): 6 ranks (900' radius), continuous +1, permanent -1, limited: (maximum penalty = -2) -2, insidious +1, selective +1, subtle (flat +2). Total = 8 points.


Mental power array:

Damage, 11 ranks, ranged +1, vs will +0, subtle +2 flat 24 points
Illusion, vision & hearing: 10 ranks, 1 target only, subtle, alternate effects 1
Mind reading, 11 ranks, subtle, alternate effects 1
Remote sensing, vision & hearing: 7 ranks (range = 1 mile), subtle, alternate effects 1
Affliction (dazed, compelled) (vs will) : 5 ranks, ranged, concentration, cumulative, insidious, limited to two degrees, subtle, alternate effects 1
Communication (mental): unlimited range, 4 ranks, subtle, alternate effects 1
Damage, 7 ranks, ranged, area burst, vs will, subtle, alternate effects 1

Total array cost: 30 points

Total points spent on powers: 70


Total points spent: 149. 1 point unspent.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby JoshuaDunlow » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:25 am

Honestly the only really complain I have from a build/GM perspective, is a character with the Awareness of a vast nigh omniscience universal being. That and it makes him seem pretty much a "one trick" pony, I suppose from my perspective I would have to understand the concept of the character a lot more; Otherwise I'd say , drop his awareness down , and spend those points in fleshing him out. Even a Awareness of 10, is considered very high super human.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby Shock » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:56 am

Environment: Visibility (minor delusions) (-2 perception rolls): 6 ranks (900' radius), continuous +1, permanent -1, limited: (maximum penalty = -2) -2, insidious +1, selective +1, subtle (flat +2). Total = 8 points.

I don't get how you (or he) came up with 8 points for this. I also don't understand what that Limited Flaw is doing. For 1 point/rank, you impose a -2 penalty on anyone in the area. I get 2pp/rank +3 for a total of 15 points at 6 ranks.
Conceptually, to me, Permanent implies he doesn't have very good control over the power since he can't turn it off. Conversely, Selective implies a good amount of control because he can choose who is affected by it.

Damage, 11 ranks, ranged +1, vs will +0, subtle +2 flat 24 points

This is costed wrong too. Changing Damage to a Will save is a +1/rank increase. The same goes for the Area Damage power as well.

He's also very light on skills and very light on defenses. Even with the -2 on attacks due to Concealment, he's going to get hit hard and often. I imagine that the Luck Control is meant to help with that but it'll run out fast and against such low defenses a second roll is going to likely be successful as well.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby Spectrum » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:26 pm

Thanks for the feedback. Several important points were brought up which I suspect that when he gets back to the 'real world' in a few weeks he'll look at them more closely.

Environment: From discussing it with him, it sounds like his thinking was that rank both increased range and the overall effectiveness.

Would the array be better handled with the use of power points and stunting? At least that seems to be the way that they are handled on the game room boards.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby Spectrum » Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:51 pm

Hi,

I just recieved this from Saint Vierzehn:
Jonah Grimm (Take 2)

PL 10



Motivation: recompense

Complications:

accident-causing

hatred: irrational/insane evil

enemy: various do-gooder shrinks and mentalists

bad reputation

quirk/secret: struggles with insanity





Str 0

Sta 0

Agil 0

Dex 5

Fight 0

Int 0

Aware 13

Pre 0



Points spent on stats: 36





Dodge defense 5

Tougness defense 0 (+8 protection, see below)

Fort defense 0

Parry Defense 5

Will defense 20



Points spent on defenses: 12





Investigation 2

Vehicles 1

Stealth 8

Perception 7

Insight 2



Points spent on skills: 10



Luck 5

Instant up

Hide in plain sight

All-out attack

+4 ranged attacks

assessment

skill mastery: perception

skill mastey: insight



Points spent on advantages: 15

Concealment, all senses, partial 10 "Don't blink."

Luck control (opponent must re-roll) 3 "I make my own."

Detect minds, ranged, accurate, acute, analytical, tracking, counters concealment, extended 10,000 ft, radius 16 "I saw that."

Danger sense 1 "Don't even think about it."

Environment: visibility (minor delusions), 9 ranks, (900' radius), continuous, permanent, subtle 8 "Welcome to my world."

Protection 8 "Feeling no pain."

Mental array, 24 point power cap "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."

Damage, 11 ranks, ranged, vs will subtle 24

Illusion, vision and hearing, 10 ranks, one target only, subtle, alternate effects 1

Mind reading, 11 ranks, subtle, alternate effects 1

Remote sensing, hearing & vision, 7 ranks (1 mile), subtle, alternate effects 1

Affliction (impaired, compelled) (vs will), 7 ranks, ranged, concentration, cumulative, limited to 2 degrees, subtle, alternate effects 1

Communication (mental), unlimited range, subtle, alternate effects 1

Damage, 7 ranks, ranged, area burst, vs will, subtle, alternate effects 1

Illusion, mental awareness and smell, 10 ranks, subtle, alternate effects 1



Points spent on powers: 77



Total points spent: 150
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby JoshuaDunlow » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:33 pm

Well I'll say it again, I don't like one trick ponies. And this character sure feels like it. A lot of 0 score abilities, and it seems for the most part concentrating on a combat oriented character. The one thing that raises flags to me is the 20 willpower vs the 0 fortitude. Even the core rule book, says doing trade off's of more than 50% of your PL , should be watched carefully for abuse (pg 26 for reference, if your curious). this character feel's like he should have some Intelligence to me, especially when you consider his skills.

Just me two cents..
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby Spectrum » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:47 pm

Thanks- I'll send that back to him.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby Shock » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:08 pm

Spectrum wrote:Environment: visibility (minor delusions), 9 ranks, (900' radius), continuous, permanent, subtle 8 "Welcome to my world."

Is the 8 at the end supposed to be cost? Is he taking 1/rank or 2/rank version? Either way, 8 would be the wrong cost. It would be 10 or 19.

Spectrum wrote:Damage, 11 ranks, ranged, vs will subtle 24
Damage, 7 ranks, ranged, area burst, vs will, subtle, alternate effects 1

These may be costed wrong. Alternate save vs Will was traditionally a +1 extra although 3E is sort of ambiguous about it. It's a GM call.

And I'll echo what I said before about his defenses. Once those Luck Control points run out, he's going to get wrecked. And if someone can see through his Concealment, it's just going to happen faster.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby dwellerofthedeep » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:17 pm

It seems to me that the character is possibly the result of trying to think outside the box in a way that turns out to be ineffective, one that would probably be tough to play.

Anyway, I second what JoshuaDunlow and Shock have pointed out. Especially I'd say watch out for the extra points having the blast primarily effect will could cost, as this build is already running very slim on points, with defenses that could use some redistributing and probably shoring up.

One other thing to consider is that ability scores are a pretty good deal (in 3rd edition especially), so taking them is hardly the drag some players tend to think they are.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby Spectrum » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:00 pm

Vierzehn should be getting off of his work marathon tomorrow (not sure if that means late late evening). We've also been working on another build with some ideas that we've been working through. I'll let him post :)

Thank you all again!
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby SaintVierzehn » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:48 pm

Hi, folks.

Thanks for the comments. They've given me something to chew on during the boring parts of work.

I've rebuilt Jonah again, and I would appreciate further comments on it.


Jonah Grimm
PL 10, 150 points

Attributes:
Str 0
Sta 0
Agl 0
Dex 0
Fgt 0
Int 0
Awe 13
Pre 0

Points spent on attributes: 26

Defenses:
Dodge 1
Fort 0
Parry 1
Toughness 9
Will 20

Points spent on defenses: 9

Skills:
Investigation 2
Vehicles 1
Stealth 20
Perception 20
Insight 15
Deception 20

Points spent on skills: 26

Advantages:
Luck 5
Instant up
Hide in plain sight
Redirect
Ranged attacks +9
Assessment
Skill mastery: perception
Skill mastery: insight
Skill mastery: stealth
Skill mastery: deception

Points spent on advantages: 22


Powers:

Detect minds: ranged, accurate, acute, analytical, tracking, counters concealment, extended 10,000 ft,
radius 16 points "I saw that."
Concealment (10 ranks), all senses, partial 10 points "Don't blink."
Danger sense 1 point "Don't even think about it."
Protection (9 ranks), 9 points "Feelin' no pain."
Telepathic array 31 points "By will alone I set my mind in motion."
Mind reading (11 ranks), subtle 24 points
Damage (11 ranks), ranged, vs will (+0), subtle, alternate effects 1 point
Illusion (10 ranks), vision & hearing, 1 target only, subtle, alternate effects 1 point
Remote sensing (7 ranks), hearing & vision, subtle, alternate effects 1 point
Affliction (impaired, compelled) (7 ranks), ranged, concentration, cumulative, limited: 2 degrees,
subtle, alternate effects 1 point
Communication (mental) (5 ranks), subtle, alternate effects 1 point
Damage (7 ranks), ranged, area burst, vs will (+0), subtle, alternate effects 1 point
Illusion (10 ranks), vision, subtle, alternate effects 1 point

Total points spent on powers: 67


Notes on this character:

In hindsight, I wish I had started with a more conventional superhero. I still would have made Jonah, I just wouldn't have made him *first*. But I've had an itch to play a mentalist for a while, and superhero systems are one of a few genres that will let you really do that. I am also working on a character that better fits the traditional "rush in and save the day" superhero motif. But that's not Jonah. Jonah plays by his own rules, and colorful spandex isn't in his playbook. Think Harry Dresden with telepathy instead of magic, and you'll have it fairly close.

The 20 will defense isn't going to go away without some sort of GM fiat. Yes, it's basically costing me 20 points to get it, between the stats and outright purchase of the defense. I'm willing to pay that price. And yes, it means the character is stuck with 0 fortitude defense. I'm willing to pay that price, too. On this character, as long as I have the option to take it, I will.

I've spoken with my GM about the damage attacks vs will. We agreed that, for his campaign, there was no particular advantage to having a damage attack hit will defense vs having it hit toughness defense. Hence, I've costed it as a +0 advantage. If Jonah ends up in a different campaign where the GM feels differently, I'll adjust the character accordingly. Frankly, I think the character would be more powerful leaving his attacks against toughness defense (since everything else he has hits will def anyway), but telekinetic blasts weren't really the way I wanted to go.

Thanks in advance for your help.

-Saint Vierzehn.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby Spectrum » Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:59 pm

I'm getting a much better appreciation of WHY so many GM's spend so much time stressing that the balances stay within +/- 2 or even 3 points.

At the same time, Spyrios seems to be an overall stronger build, as long as we can work out how exactly that 'morph-others' type effect will work.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby SaintVierzehn » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:40 am

"I'm getting a much better appreciation of WHY so many GM's spend so much time stressing that the balances stay within +/- 2 or even 3 points."

RIght. Tell me what you want this character's defenses to be. Give me the numbers. I'll make it happen.

The other character is going to sit on the shelf until we get this one settled.

-StV.
-Saint Vierzehn.
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Re: SaintVierzehn's Builds- please criticize heavily

Postby SaintVierzehn » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:26 pm

Hi, folks.

I've been working on another character that I would like comments on.

Thumbnail of character concept: Spyrios was a biochemist working for a big ph armaceutical company. He was researching regenerative anagathics, and was obsessed with it. During the years of working on the project, he began toying with expressing the formulas in alchemical terms, which was a hobby he had learned from his upbringing. He began to theorize that the processes he was trying to develop could be more easily expressed as alchemy, rather than science. He lost his j ob and his funding shortly thereafter, and was dismissed as a crackpot. But by then he was convinced that he was right, and c ompleted the project on his own. What had started as a quest for regenerative anagathics culminated in a personal recipe for ambrosia.

Name: Spyrios
PL/Points: 10 / 150

Motivation: Do-gooder
Complications: Fame, responsibility, Quirk: not licensed to practice medicine, rivalry: various scientists

Attributes:
Str 5
Sta 15
Agl 0
Dex 0
Fgt 0
Int 8
Awe 0
Pre 0

Total points spent on stats: 56


Defenses:
Dodge 0
Fort 14
Parry 0
Toughness 20
Will Immune

Skills:
Athletics 6
Expertise: magic 10
Expretise: science 9
Expertise: criminals and supervillains 9
Expretise: physician 9
Investigation 9
Technology 9
Treatment 9
Vehicles 1

Total points spent on skills: 5


Advantages:
Accurate attack
Close attack 10
Instant up
Interpose
Luck 5
Power attack

Total points spent on advantages: 19


Powers:
Immunity: aging 1 point
Immunity: will attacks 30 points
Regeneration, persistant 2 points
Damage: 5, 5 points (strength-based)
Speed 3, 3 points
Protection 5, 5 points
Healing array: 24 points
Healing 10 ranks, 20 points
Regeneration 19 ranks, alternate effects
Regeneration 10 ranks, persistant, alternate effects
Regeneration 10 ranks, usable by others, alternate effects
Regeneration, 6 ranks, usable by others, persistent, alternate effects

Total points spent on powers: 70

Total points spent: 150
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