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MORE MARVEL R2P PL10-verse: DEVIL DINOSAUR & MOON BOY

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ROGUE 2.0a (without Ms. Marvel's powers)

Postby legend » Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:56 am

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STR 0, STA 3, AGL 2, DEX 0, FGT 2, INT 0, AWE 3, PRE 1
Powers:
Memory Echoes: Enhanced Advantages 2 (Beginner's Luck, Jack-of-All-Trades) • 2 points
Power Absorption: Affliction 12 (Resisted by Will; Dazed & Powers Impaired, Powers Disabled & Stunned, Incapacitated & Transformed - Powerless), Cumulative, Extra Condition, Sense-Dependent (skin-to-skin contact) Linked to Mind Reading 12, Close, Quirk (no subconscious thoughts), Sense-Dependent (Touch); Variable 9 (Powers Lost to Affliction), Free Action, Fades (as target recovers), Limited to Affliction Targets • 90 points
Advantages: Defensive Roll 3, Improved Initiative, Second Chance (Mental Control)
Skills: Close Combat: Unarmed 6 (+8), Deception 4 (+5), Expertise: Criminal 2 (+2), Perception 2 (+5), Persuasion 4 (+5)
Offenses:
Initiative +6
Power Absorption +8, Close, Progressive Affliction 12 Linked to Mind Reading 12
Unarmed +8, Close, Damage 0
Defenses: Dodge 8, Parry 8, Will 8, Fort 8, Toughness 6/3
Power Points: Abilities 22 + Powers 92 + Advantages 5 + Skills 9 + Defenses 22 = 150
Complications:
Uncontrolled Power: Rogue absorb's the powers and memories of anyone she makes skin-to-skin contact with. Rogue can be overcome and controlled by the target's personality if they are particularly strong willed.
Last edited by legend on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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ROGUE 2.0b (with Ms. Marvel's powers)

Postby legend » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:00 am

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STR 10, STA 3, AGL 3, DEX 0, FGT 3, INT 0, AWE 3, PRE 0
Powers:
Body Armor: Impervious Protection 6 • 12 points
Combat Sense: Enhanced Skill 4 (Insight +8), Limited to combat • 2 points
Flight: Flight 5 • 10 points
Metabolic Resistance: Enhanced Fortitude 7 • 7 points
Power Absorption: Affliction 10 (Resisted by Will; Dazed & Powers Impaired, Powers Disabled & Stunned, Incapacitated & Transformed - Powerless), Extra Condition, Sense-Dependent (skin-to-skin contact); Variable 5 (Powers Lost to Affliction), Free Action, Fades (as target recovers), Limited to Affliction Targets • 45 points
Split Personality: Enhanced Advantage 2 (Second Chance 2 (Mind Control, Mind Reading)) • 2 points
Advantages: Improved Initiative, Second Chance 2 (Mind Control, Mind Reading)
Skills: Skills: Close Combat: Unarmed 7 (+10), Deception 4 (+4), Expertise: Criminal 2 (+2), Perception 2 (+5), Persuasion 3 (+3)
Offenses:
Initiative +7
Power Absorption +10, Close, Affliction 10
Unarmed +10, Close, Damage 10
Defenses: Dodge 9, Parry 10, Will 8, Fort 10, Toughness 9
Power Points: Abilities 44 + Powers 78 + Advantages 1 + Skills 9 + Defenses 18 = 150
Complications:
Multiple Personalities: In situations more familiar to Carol Danvers (Ms. Marvel), Rogue can be overcome bey Carol Danver's personality. When this happens, her eyes change color from green to blue.
Uncontrolled Power: Rogue absorb's the powers of anyone she makes skin-to-skin contact with. Rogue can be overcome and controlled by the target's personality if they are particularly strong willed.
Last edited by legend on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby JDRook » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:32 pm

Quick couple of Vs


Valkyrie - I was going to suggest combining Sword/Defend into one array slot for the Dragon Fang, but unless you consider "Magical Barrier" to be a Broad descriptor, Destroy Magic Barrier is actually only 7p, which lowers the whole array cost and leaves 4p leftover.

Also, Aragorn's Defenses total 11, not 12, so you have another point there, too.

Venom - Defenses total is 6, not 4, so Eddie's 2p over.

Jump has the same minimal effect on Brock as Tigra's above. Venom Sense needs a sense type like Spiderman's.

Vision - no errors found, although I know you mentioned wanting to come back and rejigger Vision once you were done with Rogue.
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby JDRook » Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:42 pm

And finally, the Ws!


War Machine - Repulsor Beams as written would cost 28p and throw off the array cost. I assume you used Iron Man as a template and missed a few adjustments.

I'd also recommend the non-meal version of Life Support.

Warlock - it doesn't affect the cost, but I'm not sure why Conversion is an Attack, since that would require a resistance roll.

Wasp - Turns out the Normal Strength Extra for Shrinking also removes the Intimidation penalty, so Janet's Intimidation is +2, all the time. Who knew?

Also, Stealth should be 0 (+2,+26), although it would be PL capped at +20.

There are 3 advantages, not 2, so your points are over.

For some reason I thought Wasp Sting could only be used when she was shrunk, which would save you a mess of points, but it doesn't say anything about that in her wiki.

White Queen - since both her Astral and Mental sense are of the mental type, she could arguably have Extended on both for the same cost.

LES on Psi-Technician

Contol Psionics should probably be Subtle as well, no change array cost.

Pain Touch is obviously touch range, but is there any reason it's not a higher rank? It's currently less than half the cost of the array slot. If you like it at rank 7, another option could be to have it share a slot with Psychic Surgery, since they could be considered conceptually similar effects able to heal or harm a target's nervous system.

TelComm needs Comprehend 3 to bypass language and be understood by all.

Wolfsbane - A good example of multiple Alternate Forms, although the two are so similar I'm tempted to take most of the powers out of the array and just use the varying powers inside, but that's mostly a presentational thing. Also, at least some of her senses are still available in her human form, so those could definitely be outside the array.

Wolverine - That's a nice straightforward Wolvie build. Abilities total is 72, not 73, so you still have 1p leftover.


And that's the initial 100 Marvel RtP Builds! I'll do a second sweep to check against your adjustments soon, and then probably continue with your DC builds.
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Re: ROGUE 2.0a (without Ms. Marvel's powers)

Postby JoshuaDunlow » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:47 am

I found it interesting you would use affliction for Rogue's power absorption (and for a moment, I thought your a Mad Genius for thinking of it!). And as much as it seems a proper use of her ability, I feel this mechanic is faulty. The conditions you have applied, refer specifically towards "Checks" (and not reducing ranks) . These conditions would not actually remove a persons powers (or reduce them for that matter), where as Nullify or Weaken would. That and I do not think that Affliction was designed to be used in that fashion in the first place. But its your game :)


Think i'll go back over my own Rogue build, and consider how I have built her as well.
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby legend » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:17 pm

JoshuaDunlow wrote:I found it interesting you would use affliction for Rogue's power absorption (and for a moment, I thought your a Mad Genius for thinking of it!). And as much as it seems a proper use of her ability, I feel this mechanic is faulty. The conditions you have applied, refer specifically towards "Checks" (and not reducing ranks) . These conditions would not actually remove a persons powers (or reduce them for that matter), where as Nullify or Weaken would. That and I do not think that Affliction was designed to be used in that fashion in the first place. But its your game :)


Think i'll go back over my own Rogue build, and consider how I have built her as well.
My 2 Cents, JD.


I can't take credit for this as I copied it from the Power Theft Power in the Meta Powers Power Profile (say that 10 times fast). Guess the game designers don't see it as a problem.
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Re: ROGUE 2.0a (without Ms. Marvel's powers)

Postby JDRook » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:45 pm

JoshuaDunlow wrote:...as much as it seems a proper use of her ability, I feel this mechanic is faulty. The conditions you have applied, refer specifically towards "Checks" (and not reducing ranks) . These conditions would not actually remove a persons powers (or reduce them for that matter), where as Nullify or Weaken would...

The powers wouldn't be reduced in a strict sense, but affecting the checks would mean that any use of the power would behave at 2 or 5 ranks lower, so functionally the powers seem reduced. The Affliction also offers a degree of granularity that is less absolute than Nullify and less detailed and fiddly than Weaken, and has the capacity to last longer than either of them without increasing duration.

EDIT - I suppose if you didn't like the interim steps of power reduction you could make the Affliction Transform Only (Limited to 3rd degree) and Cumulative for the same cost and bypass that whole problem.

In any case, building a fully-functional Rogue as RtP is no mean feat, as you well know. :)
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Re: ROGUE 2.0a (without Ms. Marvel's powers)

Postby JoshuaDunlow » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:51 pm

JDRook wrote:
JoshuaDunlow wrote:...as much as it seems a proper use of her ability, I feel this mechanic is faulty. The conditions you have applied, refer specifically towards "Checks" (and not reducing ranks) . These conditions would not actually remove a persons powers (or reduce them for that matter), where as Nullify or Weaken would...

The powers wouldn't be reduced in a strict sense, but affecting the checks would mean that any use of the power would behave at 2 or 5 ranks lower, so functionally the powers seem reduced. The Affliction also offers a degree of granularity that is less absolute than Nullify and less detailed and fiddly than Weaken, and has the capacity to last longer than either of them without increasing duration.

EDIT - I suppose if you didn't like the interim steps of power reduction you could make the Affliction Transform Only (Limited to 3rd degree) and Cumulative for the same cost and bypass that whole problem.

In any case, building a fully-functional Rogue as RtP is no mean feat, as you well know. :)


Oh don't get me wrong, I can see it used in that way. And it's not entirely accurate, in my opinion. But it is one solution. But lets' face it, Rogue is just one of those characters, that just "Shouldn't" be (being extremely difficult to mimic successfully). Just earlier I had to come up with a way of simulating "Suffocation" via a Garotte. And that wasn't easy, considering I just couldn't use just any of the conditions.
Last edited by JoshuaDunlow on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby kenseido » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:54 pm

legend wrote:I can't take credit for this as I copied it from the Power Theft Power in the Meta Powers Power Profile (say that 10 times fast). Guess the game designers don't see it as a problem.

According to some sources (I don't have it myself), the Life Power profile includes a Self Only Healing Power with Energizing which is not only a complete contradiction to what it says in the rulebook, but I wouldn't allow it in my game even if Steve Kenson himself wanted to play it.
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby legend » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:57 am

NOTE: Added Extra Condition (Dazed, Stunned, & Incapacitated) to Rogue 2.0's power absorption Affliction effect.
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby legend » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:01 am

kenseido wrote:
legend wrote:I can't take credit for this as I copied it from the Power Theft Power in the Meta Powers Power Profile (say that 10 times fast). Guess the game designers don't see it as a problem.

According to some sources (I don't have it myself), the Life Power profile includes a Self Only Healing Power with Energizing which is not only a complete contradiction to what it says in the rulebook, but I wouldn't allow it in my game even if Steve Kenson himself wanted to play it.


Every one makes their own decisions regarding balance. I brought it up because JoshuaDunlow said the designers never intended Affliction to be used as it is in the Meta Powers Power Profiles. I haven't seen the Life Power's Profile so I cannot say if it is unbalanced but do you really think the Power Theft Power from the Meta Power's profile is unbalanced?
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby kenseido » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:29 am

I have no problem with your use of the Affliction for Rogue. It was not my intention to suggest it wasn't appropriate. I was merely pointing out that the game designers occasionally make mistakes; and even if the Self Healing with Energizing wasn't a mistake, I still wouldn't allow it in game.

I do see Affliction as a catch all, and properly used, can be a great tool to simulate powers that were just to hard in 2E. A lot of Rogue builds I saw in 2E had Mimic tied to a Stun or Fatigeu effect, rather than actually removing their powers.

I have seen some cases where people try to use Affliction for everything or put together combos that just don't make sense, so that is my issue with the power.
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby JoshuaDunlow » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:10 am

You can take many liberties with the afflictions to mean just about anything, but I suppose that was the use of the power in the first place. I don't think I would ever use it that way. But hey its your build. In the summoning pack, that showed some weird uses for it, for things like Gestalt or transforming from a non powered to a super powered form. And granting other people powers.
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby legend » Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:29 pm

JDRook wrote:Sandman - Sand Breath looks like a Chokehold (close range and grab-based), so I'm a little confused by the name; is this working differently than I imagine? Also, since it's Close, it uses the Fighting bonus and possibly Unarmed, which puts it below PL, although this might be intentional.


Its the same as Chokehold. I replaced it with Chokehold. The Fast Grab Advantage should make up for being below PL.

JDRook wrote:Sand Spray should have its Resistance listed; Dodge would work as initial Resist, with Fort as the Overcome, like a standard Dazzle.


Corrected

JDRook wrote:Scarlet Witch - 1 rank of Dimensional on Sending means she can Send to one other dimension (besides the one she's in) and it should be named. You may have intended 2 (mystic dimensions?) which still fits the array.


Corrected.

JDRook wrote:Weather Control: see my note for Crystal, with an emphasis on the Selective footnote.


Removed the Ranged extra & added a second rank of selective as per Weather Powers Powers Profiles

JDRook wrote:The Universal & Dimensional Spells Array only costs 18p, not 19.


I was actually 10 points over in my power totals. I upped her abilities and defenses some wuth the extra points. You might want to give her another pass.

JDRook wrote:I assume her listed Defenses don't include her Shield power, but I don't know how she gets Toughness 4.


Added it. Toughness fixed by upping Stamina.

JDRook wrote:Her Dimensional Entreaties Complication is far more complex than Doc Strange's, although ultimately they both give some kind of Complication in exchange for use of the spell. I guess it would come down to a GM preference of either rolling or roleplaying the complication.


It's a holdover from converting the FASERIP rules to M&M.

JDRook wrote:Shadowcat - LES on Genius-level Computer Expert potentially saves her a full 1p.


Fixed. Increased Will with extra point.

JDRook wrote:The Phasing Attacks would be +8 each since they are both close attacks. Considering she has no range attacks or any DEX-based skills in this build, you might consider dropping her DEX in favour of something else, like Vehicle skill.


Typo - fixed. Dropped DEX by 2 & increased her defenses.

JDRook wrote:She-Hulk - Like her cousin, good build! Unlike her cousin, she has the Great Endurance Advantage and different Immunities, making her better at resisting heat and cold environments (but not damage) than the Hulk. You could opt to drop her Cold and Heat environmental Immunities and just depend on her +17 to resist with GreatEnd and save 2p.


Thanks! Replaced the Immunity with Improved Grab & 1 skill point(Athletics +1 & Perception +1).

JDRook wrote:Siryn - Another relative! You obviously used Banshee as a base and tweaked from there, so all the notes I gave for him also apply to her.

Also, Silence Field and Sonic Null Field are both Ranged Burst Areas, which seems a little weird conceptually; I'd expect either both Close Range or possibly with a Cone Area to fit the Sonic descriptor, but this may be more my own bias.


I admit it is a bit counterintuitive. My rationale for the Silence Field and Sonic Null Field powers is the Marvel Wikia description of Siryn's Sonic Null Field power. It states she "can project a field of silence in a area making no sound reach outside the area or no sound outside the area in". The words "project a field" made me think Ranged Burst.

JDRook wrote:Snowbird - Arctic Camouflage points are off. I get 2p for the Concealment with 2 flaws, 1p for Cold Immunity and 2p for the Movement Adaptation.


I get 1 point for the Concealment

JDRook wrote:Mosquito Swarm has Growth? Is this is a typo?


No typo. Got the idea from the swarm in the Summoning Powers Powers Profile.

JDRook wrote:Whale is actually 18p total. You may have counted Environmental Adaptation - Aquatic as 2 ranks of 2. The Whale's Growth also pushes Fort/Will to PL12.


Made changes to bring it to 20 points at PL.
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Re: LEGEND'S R2P PL10-Verse: ROGUE 2.0 a & b

Postby JDRook » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:11 pm

legend wrote:I was actually 10 points over in my power totals. I upped her abilities and defenses some wuth the extra points. You might want to give her another pass.

I think that depends on whether you meant for Probability Field to be a standalone power or an array slot. I'm pretty sure that's where the 10p came from.

legend wrote:
JDRook wrote:Snowbird - Arctic Camouflage points are off. I get 2p for the Concealment with 2 flaws, 1p for Cold Immunity and 2p for the Movement Adaptation.

I get 1 point for the Concealment

Oh, I was using All Visual Senses instead of just Normal Sight. My bad.

legend wrote:
JDRook wrote:Mosquito Swarm has Growth? Is this is a typo?

No typo. Got the idea from the swarm in the Summoning Powers Powers Profile.

Hmm . . . I agree with the use of Area to make it bigger (Selective would be good, too), but since the Swarm has no Strength and negligible solidity, about half the reasons to get Growth aren't really useable. I feel you'd be better off just buying up Stamina and Intimidation separately, maybe with the Stealth and Defense penalties as well, or just pick and choose instead of getting the whole Growth bundle. Admittedly it's not a huge concern since it's just one form in a Variable.

legend wrote:
JDRook wrote:Whale is actually 18p total. You may have counted Environmental Adaptation - Aquatic as 2 ranks of 2. The Whale's Growth also pushes Fort/Will to PL12.

Made changes to bring it to 20 points at PL.

PL's fixed, but I still get 18 total:
Growth 12 (innate) = 25p
Immunity 2 = 2p
Imperv Toughness 8 = 8p
Movement: EA - Aquatic = 2p
Senses 8 = 8p
Swimming 6 = 6p
Advantages = 3p
Skill bonuses = 4p
Abilities Adjustments = -40p
25+2+8+2+8+6+3+4-40=18p
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