Jab's Builds: Fear Lords, Dark Man, DC's Thriller, The S-Men

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds: Dragoness, Locus, Reignfire, Stryfe, S.U.R

Postby Jabroniville » Wed May 18, 2011 10:47 pm

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THE GRIFFIN (John "Johnny" Horton)
Created By:
Steve Englehart & Tom Sutton
First Appearance: Amazing Adventures #15 (Nov. 1972)
Role: Jobber Villain, Powerhouse, Animalistic Villain
Group Affiliations: The U-Foes, The Thunderbolts
PL 10 (128)
STRENGTH
12 STAMINA 12 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+8)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Survival) 4 (+4)
Expertise (Thug) 4 (+4)
Intimidation 8 (+8, +10 Size)
Perception 6 (+6)
Stealth 4 (+7, +3 Size)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Benefit (Ambidexterity), Diehard, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Natural Weapons), Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Power Attack, Startle, Takedown

Powers:
"Griffin Physiology"
"Natural Size" Growth 4 (Str & Sta +4, +4 Mass, +2 Intimidation, -2 Dodge/Parry, -4 Stealth) -- (12 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [9]
Flight 6.5 (180 mph) (Flaws: Winged) [6.5]
"Animal Senses" Senses 5 (Low-Light Vision, Acute & Extended Scent, Extended & Ultra-Hearing) [5]
Speed 3 (16 mph) [3]

"Natural Weapons- Claws & Teeth" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Split) [2]
"Lion's Mane" Features 2: +4 to Resist Choking Grapples or Neck-Bites [2]

"Spiked Tail"
Extra Limbs 1 [1]
Elongation 1 (Flaws: Limited to Tail) [0.5]

"Controls Birds"
Affliction 5 (Will; Dazed/Compelled/Controlled) (Feats: Communication Link) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2, Cumulative) (Flaws: Limited to Birds) [16]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Natural Weapons +7 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +12, Fortitude +12, Will +4

Complications:
Involuntary Transformation (Sanity)- The Griffin changes physically as the serum that changed him mutates, and he frequently loses his intellect, becoming a simple beast.
Prejudice (Obvious Super-Villain)- The Griffin is friggin' huge, has giant wings, a big chalk-white face, a man, etc. He's obviously a freak, and cannot pass for a normal human.

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 45 / Defenses: 9 (128)

-The Griffin looks pretty cool, and seems like a heavy-hitter (able to brawl with Wonder Man and Namor), but he's a pretty minor recurring villain over the years, and prone to frequent mutations that the next writer forgets about, so sometimes he looks like a lion, other time a humanoid, and he sometimes can control birds or is unable to speak- the writers don't really keep track of him too well. Kind of a waste, really, as someone with this power-set could actually threaten a lot of people if he ever was used properly. Instead, it seems he's just a minion of The Hood, and only attacks in groups.

-A fairly powerful, under-pointed PL 10, The Griffin can brawl it out with just about anybody for a while, can Fly, and even Control Birds a little bit. He's basically Thing-ish strong, as I think Namor's stated they were physical equals (on-land), and should be at least Large in size, since Namor used to have him as an animalistic mounted beast (in his more Leonine phase). He changes forms quite a bit, but they've mostly settled on him looking very bestial and huge, versus just an ugly guy with a mane. He's one of those guys who's jobbed to almost EVERYONE down the line, yet has totally challenged Namor, and once took a whole Avengers squad to bring down (which is why I keep almost all my PLs fairly close together- guys vary so much that this allows most cases due to "luck of the dice" much more easily).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Dragoness, Locus, Reignfire, Stryfe, S.U.R

Postby Jabroniville » Wed May 18, 2011 10:53 pm

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THE CARE BEARS
Played By:
Various
Role: Mercenary Do-Gooders
Group Affiliations: The Care Bears, The Care Bear Cousins
PL 6 (96)
STRENGTH
-1 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 2 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+5)
Athletics 4 (+4)
Deception 2 (+5)
Expertise (Care Bear) 7 (+8)
Insight 4 (+7)
Investigation 2 (+5)
Perception 1 (+4)
Persuasion 4 (+7)
Ranged Combat (Care Bear Stare) 3 (+6)
Technology 2 (+3)
Vehicles 3 (+5)

Advantages:
Equipment 3 (Cloud Car- As Car with Flight 3), Precise Attack (Ranged/Cover), Ranged Attack 3, Set-Up 2, Teamwork

Powers:
"Small Size" Shrinking 4 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [9]
(-1 Strength & Speed, +2 Defenses, +4 Stealth, -4 Intimidation)

"Fast For a Shrimpy Thing" Speed 1 (2 mph) [1]

"Care Bear STARE!" Affliction 6 (Will; Dazed & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless/Paralyzed) (Extras: Ranged, Extra Condition) (Quirk: Limited to Evil Beings) [17]

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (-1 Damage, DC 14)
Stare or Call +6 (+6 Affliction, DC 16)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +1, Fortitude +4, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Care-A-Lot, The Forest of Feelings)- All of the Care Bears & Cousins have a responsibility to protect their homelands.
Responsibility (Token Care Bear Personality Trait- ie. Friendship, Wishes, Day-dreaming, etc.)- Each Care Bear & Cousin is responsible for a particular habit, type of friendship, or other trait, and must stick to it. This often extends to negative personality traits, like grouchiness (Grumpy Bear), gluttony (Lotsa-Heart Elephant), competitiveness and arrogance (Champ Bear), narcolepsy (Bedtime Bear), etc.
Power Loss (Care Bear Stare or Call)- Each Bear or Cousin requires their tummy symbol (or... *ugh*... "belly badge") to use the Stare (or, in the Cousins' case, "Call"). They may also require the ability to speak. I can't remember. I don't know if it ever came up.

Total: Abilities: 30 / Skills: 34--17 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 27 / Defenses: 12 (96)

-Behold, the mighty CARE BEARS! I probably watched more of this show than any other cartoon back in my childhood, but not entirely of my own volition- it was just on ALL THE FREAKING TIME. It was sometimes-amusing and funny (that one where the Evil Scientist is kidnapping the Care Bears to send them to his "Room of DOOM"- which he goes on to say in the same tone of voice about fifteen times), but it was usually really dull. Things got HORRIBLE during the Nelvana-made "same small cast of characters running around" period, so the original run with DiC behind it is much better (DiC and Nelvana are pretty much the defining examples of "Cheap-Ass, Bland Animated Products Aimed at Children" in the 1980s, but each had it's own successes). Most of the characters are rather bland since they're all based around different types of friendliness and caring (specific Bears include ones for Sharing, Cheerfulness, Tenderness, Friendship, Secrets Between Friends, Birthday Celebrations, etc.), so the more interesting types are always the flawed guys- there's a reason why Braveheart Lion (who tended to be foolhardy and often not entirely brave) and Grumpy Bear (who taught us... that it was OK to be a cynical grouch, I guess. Guess which one I sympathized with more?) are two of the most popular Bears.

-There were a handful of movies, two of which hit theatres. The first two are honestly pretty good (the first has a REALLY scary villain considering it's just a head in a book, and the shapeshifting, satanic Darkheart is great in the second). The series got a resurrection lately with some CGI stuff and colour shifts in a few Bears, but really, this is pure, unadulterated kids' stuff, as it should be (not EVERY show can be ultra-cynical and full of smarmy pop-culture references). In all, I'd say the series is VERY hit or miss, with some episodes sucking worse than a black hole, and others actually being fairly interesting.

-This pretty much accounts for nearly every one of the Care Bears (and the Cousins, who are the same in all but name, including their "Cousin Call"), with some minor modifications based off of certain individuals. But yeah, Wish Bear, Grumpy Bear, Cheer Bear, etc. can all be used with this template. Their Stare is pretty weak individually, but keep in mind the little buggers tend to hit about 6 or 7 of these AT ONCE, pummelling poor No-Heart with authority. PL 6 offensively, and PL 3.5 Defensively, they're no real threat to a Marvel super-villain, but to a scientist who's trying to make the world colder, they're DEADLY.

Certain Care Bears & Cousins have alterations to their set-ups. These are as-follows:
Share Bear: Create 2 (Feats: Innate, Precise) [5] (Yeah, she could actually make milkshakes and stuff come from her stomach. Seemed incapable of just making a gun and shooting No-Heart in the head, which would have been WAY more awesome)
True-Heart Bear & Noble-Heart Horse: Leadership, Awareness 4, Presence 4, Dexterity 4 [9] (The 'original' Care Bears retroactively added in to make 'super' leaders)
Champ Bear: Athletics +8, Agility 4, Profession (Athlete) +6 [7] (The athletic one, who for some reason turned blue later on)
Grams Bear: Agility -1, Awareness 4, Perform (Storytelling) +8 [-2] (the old storyteller Bear, rarely went on missions)
Tenderheart Bear: Presence 5, Dexterity 4, Leadership, Will +8, Ultimate Will Save [12] (the true leader of the group)
Brave-Heart Lion: Presence 4, Fighting 3, Ranged Combat (Call) +2, All-Out Attack, Leadership [7] (he rushes in so much he's likely got a better Attack)
Cozy-Heart Penguin: Swimming 4 (8 mph), Immunity (Cold) [5]
Bright-Heart Raccoon: INT 16, Craft (Tech) 4, Craft (Structural) 4 [8] (The genius of the group)
Lotsa-Heart Elephant: Strength 4, Agility 0, Features 2 (Increased Weight) [6] (The resident fat-ass, and possibly a pink reference to drunken hallucinations or ****ed up Disney animated sequences)
Loyal-Heart Dog: Senses (Acute Scent, Tracking) [2] (The rarely-seen dog)
Swift-Heart Rabbit: Speed 6 (60 mph) [5]

-Note that Tenderheart Bear, Brave-Heart Lion, True-Heart Bear and Noble-Heart Horse are all PL 7s, such is their awesomeness.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Dragoness, Locus, Reignfire, Stryfe, S.U.R.F.

Postby Jabroniville » Wed May 18, 2011 10:58 pm

Image
Image

I believe the entire list is as follows, with their Main Colour and Tummy Symbol (thanks Wikipedia)-

Care Bears:
Tenderheart Bear (field leader)- Brown/red, Large Heart
True Heart Bear (main leader)- Multi-Pastel, Multi-Coloured Star with Heart Inside
Cheer Bear (key female character)- Pink, Rainbow
Champ Bear (athlete)- Light Brown (Blue in remakes), Trophy
Grams Bear (mentor)- Gray/Blue, Rose
Grumpy Bear (grouch)- Blue, Rainclouds
Friend Bear- Orange, Intertwined Flowers
Bedtime Bear- Blue, Moon
Funshine Bear (the Pollyanna- even for THIS show)- Yellow, Sun
Love-A-Lot Bear (embodiment of love in a PG sense)- Pink, Twin Hearts
Wish Bear- Mint, Shooting Star
Birthday Bear (limited focus)- Gold, Cupcake
Good Luck Bear- Light Green, Shamrock
Share Bear- Purple, Twin Milkshakes (later Lollipops so kids wouldn't share germs... really)
Secret Bear (talks in whispers)- Orange (later Pink), Heart-Shaped Lock
Hugs (baby)- Pink, Star Peeking Behind Heart
Tugs (baby)- Blue, Star in Diapers

Care Bear Cousins:
Noble Heart Horse (main leader)- Purple, Multi-Coloured Heart With Star Inside
Brave Heart Lion (field leader)- Brown/Orange, Crowned Heart
Swift-Heart Rabbit (fast guy)- Light Blue, Winged Heart
Loyal Heart Dog- Green/Blue, Heart With Dog Collar
Bright Heart Raccoon (smart guy)- Purple, Lightbulb
Lotsa Heart Elephant (fatty, reference to alcoholism or Dumbo)- Pink, Weight
Cozy Heart Penguin- Purple, Wool-Capped Heart
Playful Heart Monkey (party animal)- Yellow, Heart With Party Horn
Proud Heart Cat (prideful like a... well, you know)- Turquoise, Pink Star with Heart Inside
Treat Heart Pig (big eater)- Yellow, Ice Cream Cone
Gentle Heart Lamb (wussy)- Mint, Lace-Covered Heart

Later Additions (ie. they don't really matter, and are mostly one-shots):
Daydream Bear- Blue/Purple, Purple Saturnian Heart
Forest Friend Bear- Forest Brown, Bear & Rabbit Hugging in a Forest
Harmony Bear- Purple, Flower With Multi-Coloured Petals, Three Hearts or Three Musical Notes
I Love You Bear- Yellow, Heart
Perfect Panda- White & Black, Gold Star With Ribbon
Perfect Panda- White & Purple, Pink Rose With Ribbon
Sea Friend Bear- Sea Blue, Ocean Wave & Smiling Sun
Surprise Bear- Deep Purple or Blue, Jack In The Box With Star
Take Care Bear (only in a cough medicine colouring book)- Pale Pink or Honey-Yellow, Smiling Apple or Smiling Heart with Star
America Cares Bear- White, Shooting Star That's Red, White & Blue
Bashful Heart Bear- Turquoise, Heart Behind Rainbow
Best Friend Bear (totally redundant with Friend Bear)- Violet, Smiling Heart & Star Linked by Rainbow
Do Your Best Bear- Lime Green, Kite
Laugh-A-Lot Bear- Orange, Laughing Star
Smart Heart Bear- Watermelon Pink, Apple
Thanks-A-Lot Bear- Dark Teal, Shooting Star With Heart Inside
Hopeful Heart Bear- Fuschia, Heart With Radiating Rainbow Lights
All My Heart Bear- Red, Red & White Heart
Amigo Bear (Spanish)- Red/Orange, Aztec Spiral Sun & Hearts
Heartsong Bear- Teal, Rainbow Musical Note
Play-A-Lot Bear- Light Blue, Violet Bouncing Ball
Shine Bright Bear- Fuschia, Sunrise Inside Heart
Superstar Bear- Lemon Yellow, Multiple Coloured Stars & Hearts
Work of Heart Bear- Multiple Colours, Artist's Palette & Brush
Sweet Dreams Bear- Light Purple, Sleeping Moon & Cloud
Always There Bear- Hot Pink, Pink & Lavender Hearts
Oopsy Bear (clutz)- Yellow/Green, No Symbol (draws them on himself)
Pink Power Bear (breast cancer awareness)- Pink, Pink Ribbon
Sweet Sakura Bear- Light Pink, Cherry Blossom
Me Bear (narcissist)- Lilac, Hand Mirror
Messy Bear- Periwinkle, Whirlwind
Too Loud Bear- Deep Red, Bullhorn

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Re: Jab's Builds: Stryfe, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, The Care Bears

Postby ShatteredFaith » Wed May 18, 2011 11:35 pm

I....I...I dont know weather or not to hate you for stating up Care bears in my favorite PnP system, or to institute you. D:

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Re: Jab's Builds: Stryfe, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, The Care Bears

Postby razzputin » Thu May 19, 2011 12:10 am

I know I'm late to the party but where is this tournament of suck everyone keeps mentioning. I enjoy what your doing (especially the commentary) so I think I would like this tourney.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Stryfe, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, The Care Bears

Postby luketheduke86 » Thu May 19, 2011 12:32 am

razzputin wrote:I know I'm late to the party but where is this tournament of suck everyone keeps mentioning. I enjoy what your doing (especially the commentary) so I think I would like this tourney.


Here's a link. Its pretty awesome 8).
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Re: Jab's Builds: Stryfe, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, The Care Bears

Postby betterwatchit » Thu May 19, 2011 6:03 am

ShatteredFaith wrote:I....I...I dont know weather or not to hate you for stating up Care bears in my favorite PnP system, or to institute you. D:


He did their build back in 2E, and I made an updated version of that build for 3E.

Edit: BTW Jab, I gave credit where it was due when I posted the 3E update.
Last edited by betterwatchit on Thu May 19, 2011 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Stryfe, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, The Care Bears

Postby Speed Monkey » Thu May 19, 2011 6:51 am

Jab, after you're done torturing us with the Care Bears how about converting your excellent Justice League animated builds to 3e? (Now quick! Someone second this idea before he starts statting up Strawberry Shortcake and friends!)

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Re: Jab's Builds: Stryfe, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, The Care Bears

Postby kenseido » Thu May 19, 2011 7:18 am

Hey, I second the DCAU conversions.

Or my Little Pony....


Whatever strikes you. :D
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Re: Jab's Builds: Stryfe, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, The Care Bears

Postby Jabroniville » Thu May 19, 2011 12:09 pm

I dunno, I feel the same trepidation a lot of other posters have had, based off of the fact that we're getting OFFICIAL builds of these characters at some point... both because it seems iffy to release essentially the same content, and also because it feels... redundant, I guess? Now, I probably wouldn't feel TOO much guilt, mainly because the "Heroes and Villains" supplements are probably going to be, what, another five years in coming? But still.

Also, since the DCAU builds were relatively recent in my 2e run, I fear the 3e builds would be identical, and just a case of Copy & Paste. That makes for some quick builds, but usually they end up kinda boring, ESPECIALLY for such a big run. I'll think on it... for now, though--

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Re: Jab's Builds: Stryfe, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, The Care Bears

Postby Jabroniville » Thu May 19, 2011 12:18 pm

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TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES: The Movie

The TMNT Movie was pretty much a hallmark of my youth- I was way more into the Turtles than I was, say, G.I. Joe, and The Transformers kind of came and went before I became "of age" to really get into that (I was born in 1981, and was thus the perfect 8-11 years old for the Turtles' prime in the late '80s and early '90s period. The cartoon series was great enough when you were a kid (bright, colourful, full of jokes, and had big new characters of whom you could buy the toys EVERY WEEK), but a MOVIE? And one done WELL? It was like every kid's frickin' dream.

This franchise was really all over the place in that era. Starting in 1984 by two nerds, Kevin Eastman & Peter Laird, the first Turtles comic was really a one-shot joke. It was a parody of Daredevil (which had TONS of Ninjas) and the X-Men (who were mutants), and they combined the two concepts into a grim 'n' gritty batch of teen angst the likes of which the 1980s were FULL of. The art was ugly, the stories were weird and disjointed (they killed the Shredder in the FIRST ISSUE, apparently), but it was a SENSATION for whatever weird screwed-up reason (seriously, an INDEPENDENT COMIC BOOK making THAT kind of a splash?) you could think of in the '80s (I'm thinking cocaine).

There were multiple variations of the franchise, most of which were huge:

* The Mirage Comic Book Series- The original. I read a Trade Paperback of the first issues a long time ago, and I found it rather mediocre, truth be told. Very weird, and full of ugly, ugly art. It gets props from the usual "the original is ALWAYS best" and the "it's indie so it's KEWLER than this Popular Pop Culture bollicks" crowds. It really comes across as proto-Image in a lot of ways, but less with the infantile boob-obsession.

* The Animated Series- This went on FOREVER. I remember getting into it when it was new and totally gnarly, and EVERY KID I KNEW was in love with it. That damn episode with the Dimension X Teeangers and their stupid Grybyx came on like 15,000 times, annoying me endlessly (I'm very sure I thought "PLEASE don't let this by the Grybyx one" and then throwing a tantrum that it was), but I remember it being pretty great. I tired on it over the years (research and common sense have shown that any given thing will only be REALLY huge for about three years before fading away- things like "Pokemon" are rare exceptions), and by the last few seasons, I didn't know a single person watching. It lasted a FREAKISH amount of time (something like nine seasons, but most of them were short). I haven't really gotten into it for retro-stuff like I did most of the '80s cartoons, and oddly it doesn't seem to get the props the others do in retrospect either. Their DVDs came out with little fanfare, they don't have fansites out the yin-yang, and nobody ever seems to talk about it. It's really rather odd, when you consider this franchise was ****ING HUGE in it's prime- easily larger than the Transformers or G.I. Joe, truth be told. I never really got into it in recent years, as I've been wavering on spending money on something that could totally fail to hold up- the series was goofy at it's best, and was usually poorly-animated and had the exact same plot told about 9,000 times. Part of me doubts that it's anywhere near as good as the Joes, Autobots, and Disney Afternoon stuff was (it's gotta be better than "ThunderCats", though- that show is the ULTIMATE "Fails to Hold Up" experience).

* The Archie Comic Book Series- Basically replacing the Mirage series, this was an odd experience for me as a kid. The first issues were pretty bad (I have a few of them), and they tried to copy the cartoon pretty closely, but after a point they went WAAAAAYYY off on a tangent, and started dealing with new enemies and worlds, got rid of many of their old villains (Bebop & Rocksteady turned into nudists on an alien world full of transplanted Earth zoo animals), met up with the "Mighty Mutanimals" (a gang of popular supporting characters and a couple of newbies) who later GOT SHOT AND MURDERED (seriously- this is an ARCHIE SERIES), etc. It primarily turned into a Disney "Uncle Scrooge" type of "wandering the Earth on adventures" type of story, usually with a hyper-environmentalist stance (think "Captain Planet"). It has a LOT of fans to this day, and people still whine about it getting cancelled before it could finish an epic plotline, but really, with the cartoon long-since cancelled, this book was probably selling like crap. The issues I have are readable, but still pretty kiddie, even though it's remarkably adult for an Archie book. Parts of it kind of read like "hoo-hoo, let's have NASTY WORDS so that kids will think this is adult!" because April says stuff like "I'll cut you - I SWEAR" and I'm pretty sure a blinded Turtle once copied Bart Simpson's "I'm [blank]- who the hell are you?" line). It's interesting, but not really phenomenal, likely getting over-rated because of the age group of the kids reading this "bad" stuff.

* The Palladium RPG "After The Bomb"- Palladium never met a franchise they didn't like, and so they translated some Turtles stuff into RPG form. It was a mess, though (despite one of my best friends being OBSESSED WITH THIS GAME- he's a Furry so this crap appeals to him naturally, and he's always had a fetish for "Post-Apocalyptic" stuff)- the Character Creation system was abysmal (if you wanted to be a cool large animal turned into a human, you had to spend nearly ALL of your points getting stuff like hands, so you were almost always worse off than guys who took smaller animals), and it had the usual nonsensical Palladium rules (that system makes ZERO sense in retrospect- "Rifts" was my first RPG, and now I can barely make sense of the rules). The RPG books first took stuff directly from Mirage, but they eventually shifted to a more "this is a post-apocalyptic world of radiation-mutated animal-people" concept with some TMNT trappings.

* The Playmates Toy Line: Well crap, you want something every kid I knew was OBSESSED with, back in the day? Look no further. These toys were AWESOME- some were incredibly-detailed, some were HUGE, and plenty of them kicked ass. My brother and I had all kinds of these things- General Tragg, Muckman, Baxter Stockman, my beloved Casey Jones, countless variations of the Turtles (Wrestler Mikey, my favourite Detective Don), Shredder, etc. Oddly, the first Shredder toy SUCKED (he was SHIRTLESS?), but they made up for it with the "Super Shredder" toy from the second movie. These things were iconic and everywhere when I was a kid. They eventually flat-out ran out of ideas once they REALLY had to start digging for their "take an animal, give it a stupid pun-based name, and give him a '90s-esque outfit" original figures, but there is some sweet, under-rated (few give this line the time of day compared to the G.I. Joe, TransFormers & Star Wars lines... even He-Man & it's legion of same-bodied muscle-men gets more cred) stuff here.

* Video Games: Awesomeness personified, at least for the most part. The first NES game SUCKED, as it was famously-difficult to the point of being annoying (a TIMED LEVEL full of electrified seaweed and underwater junk?), had enemies that you never saw in the toys or cartoons, and it had really bad graphics and gameplay (a side-scrolling Platformer instead of a Beat 'Em Up). The next bunch of NES games (including arcade translations) made up for it, and nearly every one was good. "Turtles In Time" was ridiculously-easy to beat, but it had great graphics, awesome bosses (Slash! Tokka! Rahzar! Android Krang! SUPER-SHREDDER!). There was that silly "Tournament Fighters" game that was one of those generic "Nineties Fighting Games" that were EVERYWHERE at the time (they were as ubiquitous as Side-Scrollers back then), and little else for a long time. There were a bunch more recent games, but I thought the one I played was pretty bad- Beat 'Em Ups don't translate well to 3-D gaming, and the voice acting was BRUTAL ("Eat feet! Eat feet!... Eat feet! Eat feet!").

* The 2000s Animated Series- This series was very popular with nerds and kids, but didn't make remotely as big a splash as the original (but really, what could?). I... didn't HATE it, but I never felt nearly the amount of love for it that others did. I read countless reports by people going all "Wooaaaaaah man this is what the Turtles are SUPPOSED to be!" and going all crazy with praise for it, but I just thought it was a standard mediocre crimefighting show. I was probably the wrong age group for it- it wasn't enough like the Animated Series I remembered as a kid, and it wasn't as adult as cooler dark stuff like "Gargoyles" or "Batman: The Animted Series", so it was just another kids' action show to me. It didn't help that I started watching it on weekends during a HORRIBLE "let's go fly around in space and deal with Triceratons" arc that just... kept... on... GOING. Seriously, them, Fugitoid, some triceratops aliens and stuff all running around, and it took so long to get resolved that I washed my hands of the whole series. The show actually lasted a REALLY long time, was pretty-well animated, and isn't a BAD show, but it just wasn't for me. It did have two notable aspects- Casey Jones was finally a major fixture after being a non-entity on the original 'toon, and the characters were FINALLY coloured the way they were in the toys, so that Donnie was that poop brown colour, Mikey was that intense green, etc. It always bugged me that the cartoons didn't look much like the toys.

* The Films- I would argue that the first Turtles movie was the peak of the franchise- it definitely was for me. The movie was shockingly adult ("DAAAAAAAAAAMN!"), extremely violent and dark, yet it was fun, inventive and exciting. The fight scenes were awesome, the dialogue is great ("I hate punkers..."), the animatronic puppet-work was brilliant (Jim Henson worked on it specifically for the challenge- it still holds up remarkably well, despite some odd facial reactions and funny "angry faces"), CASEY JONES THE GREATEST MAN WHO EVER WALKED THE EARTH features in it heavily, and there are tons of great scenes as well. That whole scene where Shredders stands in front of all these punker kids in the greatest hide-out in history and gives them this big "I AM YOUR FATHER NOW" speech... that is AWESOME and I totally wanted my own Dragon Doji so that I could pick pockets and slap nosy reporters around, too. The first movie is awesome, and made a ridiculous amount of money (it cost $15 million to make, and made TWO HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS), so it was inevitable that it would create a series.

The second movie ("Secret of the Ooze") made a very respectable $78 million, but was worse in almost every way- it featured Shredder's return, no Casey (replacing him with a Spunky Teen Sidekick), a MUCH hotter April O'Neil, and two new mutants (after Eastman & Laird requested "no Bebop & Rocksteady" in Tokka & Rahzar, a pair of mentally-incompetent giant animals. It was funny in parts, very inventive, and had some decent scenes, but it was much goofier than the first movie (deliberately- I'm sure some parents were less than impressed at the scene in the first where Raphael gets the living shit kicked out of him and tossed through a skylight, not to mention all the "Damns"), the fights were less intense and more goofy, etc. It did have "Super Shredder" (Played By future WWF & WCW World Champion Kevin Nash), and HE was awesome, though. And oh yeah- the utter hilarity of "Ninja Rap". It actually bugged me as a kid that Vanilla Ice would somehow have the wherewithal to improvise a new Rap song during a massive fistfight in his concert. It also annoyed me that the two cool-looking bad-ass mutants were babies, though David Warner was really good as the cynical scientist (apparently he was originally going to be revealed as an Utrom Brain-Alien).

The third movie ([b]"Turtles In Time"
) ... sucked a fat one. It involved some magic lantern that brought the boys & April to feudal Japan, where they faced some Evil White People and a Big Mean Daimyo. The plot was cartoonish and silly (one critic noted that "This is a movie for children, and could probably have been written by them as well"), the animatronics work took a nose dive (their faces jump and flop around when they talk), and it had a bunch of solid ideas done WAY too quickly for them to work (Michelangelo falls in love, and Raphael becomes a father-figure, but both plotlines are given about three minutes of development before being dropped), and even Casey Jones' return couldn't make it awesome. The fights are bad, and the villains suck, too. The movie made some decent money (cost $21 million, made $42 million), but the backlash was pretty bad, and the franchise had basically died by 1993 anyways, so that was it for the movies. Until...

Image

The fourth movie ("TMNT") is apparently in the same continuity, but is totally different. It's a CGI film, and is honestly pretty good. I think it's better than the second movie (but still ages behind the first), but doesn't have the same nostalgic punch (I can still quote almost the entirety of "Secret of the Ooze"). I REALLY hate the art style they went with (Casey Jones & Splinter look okay, but the Turtles are so buggy-eyed and big-headed with skinny little bodies that any drama in their scenes is almost ruined- it looks like bobble-heads fighting), but it's got some good moments with Leo & Raph doing their classic "Good Son Leader-type" versus "Asshole Rebel-type" thing, especially when they brawl on that rooftop. The backdrop storyline is utterly uninteresting to me (a Macguffin Hunt for thirteen ancient evils that get rounded up in seconds off-screen), Karai and her Foot Clan basically do nothing, and the Four Stone Generals look cool, but aren't very deep characters either- basically they worked for an Immortal Dude who is responsible for a lot of ancient history (Caesar and junk), and he wants to creat a mystic ceremony to take away his immortality and that of his generals so that they can be human again, but they decide they like the power that being stoney brings them, and they fight him. It had a respectable, solid run in theatres (cost $31 million, made over $95 million), but it failed to resurrect any huge interest in the franchise. Curiously, it's got some pretty mediocre voice-acting, considering that both Mako (Aku, Uncle Iroh) and Patrick Stewart (Picard, Xavier) are involved. There's very little "epic dialogue" going on, which the first movie had in spades.

Foot Headquarters:
I swear to God, this was like the concentrated microcosm of everything every kid thought was awesome in the world during the early 1990s. It was like how every kid desired being "bad" (remember what I said about the nature of the movie being more "adult" than stuff we'd normally get to see?), and this was that aspect MAXIMIZED. In about half a minute, we saw kids playing pool while smoking big cigars (likely a direct reference to that "Pinocchio" scene this is based off of- the "Badness" of being a young runaway and hooligan), a slutty chick wandering around in punker clothes while smacking gum, kids playing cards while smoking, a mohawked guy playing a guitar, neon lights and giant skateboarding ramps EVERYWHERE, guys spraying graffiti (apparently on some random wall), kids playing violent arcade games, etc. There's even a quick shot of a box of ARCHIE COMICS laying around... it was AWESOME. I think that scene where Tatsu goes NUTS, flattens a bunch of stuff, and beats some poor random kid into a coma (it's VERY obvious in retrospect that the kid was supposed to be dead- all the "he'll be alright" and coughing was off-camera dialogue- just look at everyone's faces) was designed solely to make this ninja, runaway lifestyle LESS cool to the kids, because I saw that movie at nine years old, and lemme tell you, I wanted to join the Foot Clan BAD after seeing that set-up for the first time.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds: MLF, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, Care Bears, TMNT

Postby Ares » Thu May 19, 2011 1:44 pm

Speed Monkey wrote:How does getting his butt kicked, stabbed, and shot all to hell every issue make him "the best at what he does"?


Well, maybe he's the best at what he does, which is getting his butt kicked, stabbed and shot.

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Re: Jab's Builds: MLF, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, Care Bears, TMNT

Postby Ares » Thu May 19, 2011 3:00 pm

You know Jab, just when I think we're about as synched up as a couple of geeks can get (seriously, the G.I. Joe stuff alone . . ), you praise that TMNT CGI movie whilst dissing on the 2003 animated series, and I wonder if I really know you at all. :|

Nah, just kidding, but man did I love the 2003 toon and HATED the TMNT CGI film. It just got so many things wrong, and one of the only things I really liked about it was the plot involving Winters, the monsters and the immortal statues, but that plot felt completely wasted in this movie. It's almost like the Immortals stuff was suppose to be its own movie, but the studios didn't have faith in it, so they shoe-horned it into a Ninja Turtles film.

That movie was just . . . . so . . . . WRONG, on so many levels. I mean, can anyone explain:

1) What kind of leadership training Leo was getting by living out in South America for a year? Yeah, it might be making him better at stealth, a better jungle fighter, making him more self reliant, but none of that relates to coordinating a group. If anything, Leo was probably a better leader BEFORE he left, given how the team fell apart without him.

2) Why the Turtles are suddenly anti-Nightstalker? Okay, I understand why Raph is dressing up as the Nightstalker, I do. He wants to be out fighting crime on his lonesome, he wants to be a bit more public about it, and he doesn't want to reveal to the world at large that there are giant mutant turtles running around. But my question is, why does all of the other Turtles, Leo in particular, have a problem with the Nightstalker? If they had shown Raph was getting more reckless, more out of control and hurting people, it would have made sense, but Raph didn't do anything the Turtles or Casey Jones hadn't done. Leo's rant against vigilantes in particular falls flat because A) Casey Jones, one of the Turtles best friends, is a vigilante and B) The Turtles themselves are, by their nature, vigilantes. The Nightstalker hadn't done anything the Turtles or their friends hadn't done, and he'd been proctecting the city while Leo was off being emo in the woods.

3) Leo's "I'm better than you" comment? That's just so antithetical to everything Leo is that it hurt to hear it. Leo doesn't have an ego, he doesn't think he's better than any of his brothers, and in fact, part of the reason he's as dedicated to being the ultimate ninja is out of love for his family. He's the dutiful son for his father, and he's taken it upon himself to really master Splinter's teachings so that the others are free to pursue their own goals. He has no ego about his abilities and does not condescend towards his brothers like that. His statement falls especially flat when, during their fight, Leo sent a stab at Raph's face that would have put out his brother's eye if Raph hadn't dodged.

4) Why are the Turtles suddenly worried about money, to the point that Mike and Don have to get jobs?

5) For that matter, why are Mike and Don basically guest stars in their own movie? This film may as well been called "Raphel, co-starring Leonardo, Splinter, Casey Jones and April, special guest appearances by Don and Mikey". Yeah, Raph got the most screen time in the first film too, but everyone else also got a lot of play and show time as well. Mike and Don had some of the best lines in the first film. Here, they pretty much don't exist save for a skateboard scene.

Again, the only thing I really liked about the movie was the Ancient Immortal Warlord and 13 Monsters plot, which probably could have made for a decent movie by itself or a better animated series with its own mythology. Here, it just seems like something they shoe-horned into the Turtles universe and hoped that name recognition would help sell it.

Okay, okay, rant over.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Stryfe, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, The Care Bears

Postby Unbeliever » Thu May 19, 2011 4:12 pm

Jabroniville wrote:I dunno, I feel the same trepidation a lot of other posters have had, based off of the fact that we're getting OFFICIAL builds of these characters at some point... both because it seems iffy to release essentially the same content, and also because it feels... redundant, I guess? Now, I probably wouldn't feel TOO much guilt, mainly because the "Heroes and Villains" supplements are probably going to be, what, another five years in coming? But still.

Also, since the DCAU builds were relatively recent in my 2e run, I fear the 3e builds would be identical, and just a case of Copy & Paste. That makes for some quick builds, but usually they end up kinda boring, ESPECIALLY for such a big run. I'll think on it... for now, though--

For what it's worth I think the DCAU incarnations of the characters are often sufficiently different from the "iconic" versions that GR is building that you wont be stepping on too many toes. Though that might be a bit less so for some characters than others (Wonder Woman strikes me as build wise pretty similar though the cartoons play up her martial arts a lot). Ymmv. And I'm happy to enjoy your X Force and other builds.

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Re: Jab's Builds: MLF, S.U.R.F., The Griffin, Care Bears, TMNT

Postby Ares » Thu May 19, 2011 5:02 pm

I think animated versions of established Marvel and DC characters are likewise distinct enough from their comics counterparts that statting them up is worthwhile.

I mean, for Superman alone there's the Fleischer Superman, the Super Friends/Super Powers Superman, the 80's animated Superman, the DCUA Superman, the Superman from The Batman and the Superman from Young Justice. The Fleischer, DCUA and 'The Batman Supermen differentiate themselves from the comic boyscout Superman by being A) Kind of a dick at times and B) A lot more mysterious and less open with the press.


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