Jab's Builds: Fear Lords, Dark Man, DC's Thriller, The S-Men

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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby Spectrum » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:49 am

Is this one of those 'gay old time' cases? The name meaning something different than it does now? For that matter, compared to a horse and even a lot of old trains, 100 mph is amazing speeds. After all, people would die if they broke the speed of sound.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby FuzzyBoots » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:08 am

Hee... the Gay Basher all over again...

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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby Spectrum » Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:56 pm

Frozen- really good, I can see why it's been so popular and they clearly picked a good year to release it.. brrr.

At the same time, I wonder if I heard too much about it before seeing it? Two thoughts kept running in the back of my mind.

Why is there so much Anna? We need to get back to Elsa now! I'm curious as to how much of that was intentional. While Anna is the main protagonist, in so many ways, there's so much less there. I often found her a bit annoying really.

Elsa of the Xmen- Yep! She would have been a great fit in that setting. I might have to do something with that at some point.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:23 pm

Apparently Disney was legit convinced that Anna was the star- Elsa was also a villain in the first drafts (deleted scenes include actual recorded dialogue of her as a bad guy who tortures others, which would have been quite late in the process). Idina Menzel was also probably busy during recording with her new musical and couldn't always be there.

Elsa's dynamic character just kind of happened almost by accident later on, and could almost have been ruined by TOO much screen time. I mean, they barely even pushed her big song at all-all the previews were Anna-centric or involved gag humor, and [i]For the First Time in Forever [i]was treated as the key showstopper.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby saint_matthew » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:29 pm

Spectrum wrote:Frozen- really good, I can see why it's been so popular and they clearly picked a good year to release it.. brrr.


I actually hate Frozen & I haven't even seen it.... An I hate it because I haven't seen it (but would like to) & I haven't seen it because people have hyped it so much that it can't possibly live up to all the hype & expectation. So now I'm waiting until all the hype dies down, no one cares about it & it comes out on dvd.

That way, when it turns out to be a fairly average movie i'll be able to nod say "yes, this was indeed a movie" & then move on with life, without feeling the need to blast people for over hyping it beyond all comprehension.

The same thing I did with the Harry Potter books & movies.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:02 pm

*tsk*- pre-judging a movie because of its fans and hype is poopie. Boo to that. If I did that, I'd never see anything. It'd be like if I refused to watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic because of Bronies... oh wait I DO do that- never mind :).

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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby danelsan » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:38 pm

I know there are a few things I have not watched that are likely to be actually good because of...lets call it "hype allergy". Thankfully I'm not affect by it too often.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby saint_matthew » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:50 pm

danelsan wrote:I know there are a few things I have not watched that are likely to be actually good because of...lets call it "hype allergy". Thankfully I'm not affect by it too often.


I call it hype aversion, but it sounds like the same thing.... People hype things to the point where it can't possibly live up to the hype, when you've got people announcing "you have to see this movie, its such a good movie it changed my life, this movie is so good that it gave me cancer & then cured me of cancer, I lost weight & now I last twice as long during sex," you just know its not going to do any of that.

Of course if you watch it & you are disappointed because people have over hyped it, you then can't say anything because everyone else is in the midst of their crazy hype cycle & so you start to hate it even more because you didn't enjoy it specifically because it was over hyped.

Hence my plan to proactively hate the amount of hype, as I wait for the hype to die down. That way when I do watch it if it turns out to just be a pretty decent, average mid range movie i'll be able to say "well that was enjoyable in its own rights, but it has things I consider flaws & things I thought it did well," without having people scream more hype at me.

My Hype Aversion kicks in almost exclusively with books & movies.... I have the same issue with game of thrones: Sorry folks but it aint all that. Its a mid tier fantasy piece.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:58 pm

Image
Image

MISS AMERICA I (Madeline Joyce)
Created By:
Otto Binder & Al Gabriele
First Appearance: Marvel Mystery Comics #49 (Nov. 1943)
Role: Forgotten Golden Age Character
Group Affiliation: The Invaders, The All-Winners Squad, The Liberty Legion
PL 7 (99)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Insight 3 (+6)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 1 (+4)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Stealth 1 (+5)

Advantages:
Improved Hold, Great Endurance, Ranged Attack 2

Powers:
"Psionic Levitation" Flight 7 (250 mph) [14]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (The Whizzer)- The two were married for years, but she died in childbirth.
Disabled (Needs Glasses)- One of the only superheroes to do so, in fact.

Total: Abilities: 60 / Skills: 16--8 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 14 / Defenses: 13 (99)

-Miss America was one of Marvel's first attempts to appeal to young female readers (alongside Namora, Sun Girl, Golden Girl, Blonde Phantom & Venus), and is basically a Wonder Woman knock-off with a generic name- one used by Quality Comics two years earlier (that one laster showed up in DC's Freedom Fighters). However, the character failed and Miss America #2 became a Women's Magazine. She's a teenage heiress who was playing around with a scientist's machine during a thunderstorm, and... well, got Flying Brick powers. She soon lost the Strength for some reason (one of those Golden Age Retcons that often happened). Even though her solo book altered itself immediately, she got on the short-lived All-Winners Squad (later Retconned into being The Invaders). She died in childbirth (the first of their twins was a radioactive mutant and killed her- the second died), and both The Liberteens and The Young Allies got new versions (though the former only got a MS. America.

-Her only real power is to fly (X-Ray Vision & Super-Strength were retconned away), which makes me wonder how effective she was- she died before the modern age of comics occurred, so we never saw her against real quality opponents. She's a not-particularly-dangerous PL 6-7 character.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:04 pm

Image

SUNDOWN (David Patrick Lowell)
Created By:
Kurt Busiek & Tom Lyle
First Appearance: The Untold Tales of Spider-Man Annual 1997
Role: Forgotten Hero
PL 12 (153)
STRENGTH
0/12 STAMINA 0/12 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 6 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Expertise (Botanty) 8 (+14)
Technology 2 (+8)

Advantages:
Inventor

Powers:
"Flying Brick" Enhanced Strength 14 & Stamina 12 & Protection 5 (57) -- [58]
    AE: Growth 12 (Str & Sta +12, +12 Mass, +6 Intimidation, -6 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -12 Stealth) -- (48 feet) (24) -- [25]
Solar Blast 15 (Feats: Accurate 3) (33) -- [34]
    AE: Teleport 11 (22)
Flight 7 (250 mph) [14]
Regeneration 8 [8]

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Flying Brick +5 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Solar Blast +6 (+15 Ranged Damage, DC 30)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +0 (+12-17 Flying Brick/Giant), Fortitude +1 (+13 Flying Brick/Giant), Will +2

Complications:
Motivation (Working With Plants)
Relationship (Ex-Wife)- David's wife henpecks him constantly, and is a source of great annoyance.
Relationship (Mary Kelleher)- Young Mary liked David's talks about plants, and forgave him for his part in blowing off her right arm. He likes her enough to be concerned when she's taken hostage.

Total: Abilities: 24 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 114 / Defenses: 9 (153)

-Sundown is a scientist working at Oscorp who discovered that he could harness the power of photosynthesis in human beings. He then demanded a raise from his boss, NORMAN OSBORN. So you can imagine he was then fired, at which point he injested his own formula and gained superpowers. He went on a psychotic rampage, but was brought back to reality after accidentally severing a young girl's arm. After a divorce and a ten-year stint in prison, he returned to New York, and ended up getting blackmailed by an old prison ally into joining his gang. He's apparently smart enough to build something that makes him INSANELY powerful, able to take on the combined forces of the Silver Age Spider-Man, Avengers, Fantastic Four & X-Men, making him SUPER-powerful. The exacts itself as a low-accuracy (I mean, he's been in TWO fights), high-powered bit of attacks- he can either grow or be a Flying Brick, plus he Regenerates and can Blast stuff. WHY DIDN'T HE REMAKE THE FORMULA AND SELL IT???

-I think he would have done better as a character if he hadn't been so over-powered. He's not only out of place for a Spidey villain, but over the top for any Marvel hero (once he turned good).

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Re: Jab's Builds: Red Sonja, Black Fox, Whizzer, Miss Americ

Postby Crinos » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:54 am

Miss America also showed up in the X Statix Dead Girl Miniseries, where she was trapped in Hell and helping out the Mini's villain in an attempt to get resurrected.

IIRC, in that mini she was also shown as being racist, but also ended up in a relationship with the Anarchist, a long time X statix member who died (Which tended to happen to them a lot).

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Re: Jab's Builds: Pantheon, Red Sonja, Black Fox, The Whizze

Postby saint_matthew » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:00 am

Jabroniville wrote:-Miss America was one of Marvel's first attempts to appeal to young female readers (alongside Namora, Sun Girl, Golden Girl, Blonde Phantom & Venus), and is basically a Wonder Woman knock-off with a generic name- one used by Quality Comics two years earlier (that one laster showed up in DC's Freedom Fighters). However, the character failed and Miss America #2 became a Women's Magazine. She's a teenage heiress who was playing around with a scientist's machine during a thunderstorm, and... well, got Flying Brick powers. She soon lost the Strength for some reason (one of those Golden Age Retcons that often happened). Even though her solo book altered itself immediately, she got on the short-lived All-Winners Squad (later Retconned into being The Invaders). She died in childbirth (the first of their twins was a radioactive mutant and killed her- the second died), and both The Liberteens and The Young Allies got new versions (though the former only got a MS. America.

-Her only real power is to fly (X-Ray Vision & Super-Strength were retconned away), which makes me wonder how effective she was- she died before the modern age of comics occurred, so we never saw her against real quality opponents. She's a not-particularly-dangerous PL 6-7 character.


Occasionally you'll see characters like this & all you can do is think "gee whiz, Marvel really didn't have many interesting compelling characters during the golden age now did they?" I think at that point timely comics was really just playing at the comic thing, where as National was really on to a good thing. I mean she's a character who has appeared over 70 years worth of comics, but she's still never had her own story, her own book & she's so interchangeable that not one of us knows anything real about her (which is not helped by the chopping & changing of story features).

Bit of a shame really because she always looked like a character that would be easy enough to do some really compelling stories with. Though she does have a track record of silly shit that's been done with her in alternative universes.... Heck at this point she's essentially become that "only important in alternate universes, because she's never important in the real universe" style character

From the sillier things like this

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2012 ... 9_0001.jpg

to cool things like her appearance in the Spiderman Cartoon: http://marvel.wikia.com/Madeline_Joyce_(Earth-92131)
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Re: Jab's Builds: Red Sonja, Black Fox, Whizzer, Miss Americ

Postby Jabroniville » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:43 am

For the most part, Timely's early history was pretty bad- even pro-Marvel books admit this. Essentially, Martin Goodman's entire philosophy was to find what was popular, and then copy it mercilessly, abruptly dumping everything when it started to get stale. So you had a whole bunch of superheroes debut within a couple years of each other, 90% of whom vanished within a couple issues (and only a handful were big at all- Cap, Namor, Torch, The Whizzer & The Angel). Then it was Funny Animal Books. Then all the hero books were cancelled and it became Cowboy & Romance books (a brief attempt at reviving their Big Three heroes failed quickly). It wasn't until DC had success with their Silver Age revivals that Timely brought in some new superheroes and set off the real Marvel Universe we all know and love.

DC (a combination of National & DC) was a lot more successful in general at the time, and also had the benefit of Roy Thomas doing his Continuity Wankfest book The All-Star Squadron for years, using a lot of forgotten characters. Plus many of DC's failed characters like Wildcat & Mr. Terrific were given new life because they lucked out in getting on the Justice Society for a couple issues, and thus gained eternal relevance. By contrast, his Invaders book was much weaker, and isn't particularly well-remembered. Marvel's made repeated attempts at doing some Golden Age stuff, and it always falls flat- people really only care about the characters in their modern context (Cap & Namor), they don't care about the people they've never heard of or were never relevant (Spitfire & Blazing Skull, lookin' at you two), and Golden Age Torch just doesn't interest most people.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Red Sonja, Black Fox, Whizzer, Miss Americ

Postby greycrusader » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:24 am

Miss America is actually a bit more effective than your write-up-in the last WWII era Invaders series, she manifests super-strength (or at least striking power) when angry or frightened; it fades quickly (sort of a super-adrenalin boost) but allows her to crack a stone bust in half with a punch and throw two men simultaneously. She can only sustain it a few seconds, but she's decently accurate so Miss America is likely PL 9 when boosted.

She always has a vaguely defined "vitality" power, which seems to be defined as almost never getting tired and being a bit more resistant to harm/faster healing (around Captain America levels, but adjusted down for her much slighter build).

And yeah, Timely only has a handful of memorable characters outside the "Big 3" (Cap, Namor, Human Torch)-The Destroyer (kind of the Punisher against Nazis), The Angel I (who had a lot of occult and weird-science adventures), The Blazing Skull (so strange he had a charm of sorts). Other concepts such as Jack Frost or The Terror had potential but no top talent or push was given to their books. So Timely ended up with a bunch of knock-offs and generic patriotic heroes (2nd and 3rd tier Cap A clones) which faded out quickly after the war ended.

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Re: Jab's Builds: Red Sonja, Black Fox, Whizzer, Miss Americ

Postby saint_matthew » Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:14 am

Jabroniville wrote:For the most part, Timely's early history was pretty bad- even pro-Marvel books admit this.


An yet they survived while Fawcett Comics went under.... Pretty much puts the truth behind that old saying; "time makes fools of us all."
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