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Jab's Builds: Red Sonja, Black Fox, Whizzer, Miss America

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Re: Jab's Builds: GR, Bloodseed/scream, Wild Thing, Sleepwalker

Postby Batgirl III » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:49 am

Jabroniville wrote:Also, in what parallel universe is the Killer Whale our largest apex predator? A Sperm Whale is MUCH bigger, and is certainly at it's own apex. Silly article.


The Sperm Whale is large and a predator, but it is not the apex predator of its environment. Sperm Whales are subject to regular predation by Orca.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Wild Thing, Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel

Postby Severance » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:20 am

Yeah, I was under the impression that orca were dangerous because they were pack hunters, much like wolves. Of course sperm whales aren't slouches either, what with tangling on a daily basis with giant squid.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Wild Thing, Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel

Postby Batgirl III » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:12 am

Orca are pack hunters, but one of the things they hunt in those packs are Sperm Whales. To be an apex predators you need to be a predator with no predators of your own, thus residing at the top of your food chain.

Obviously, scientists probably debate this definition as fiercely as we nerds argue "Who would win in a fight? Batman or Captain America!?" so there is room to disagree. But if the criteria is 'eats stuff, and doesn't get eaten' then the Sperm Whale loses to the Orca.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Wild Thing, Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel

Postby Jabroniville » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:01 am

Well sure they CAN be killed by large groups of Orca, but in many areas they're still apex predators (and ain't no Killer Whale screwing with a Bull Sperm Whale)- they're even found on this list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_apex_predators

Lions are apex predators, but would still be killed by large groups of hyenas and stuff. Actually, given the massive size of that list (and the breadth of the term "Apex Predator"), almost anything counts as an apex predator SOMEWHERE.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Wild Thing, Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel

Postby kenseido » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:10 am

Actually Wikipedia does include this quote

Killer whales are very sophisticated and effective predators. Thirty-two cetacean species have been recorded as killer whale prey, from examining either stomach contents, scarring on the prey's body, or feeding activity. Groups even attack larger cetaceans such as minke whales, gray whales, and rarely sperm whales or blue whales.


with this link as reference. Check Table 1 in Appendix 1, Sperm Whales are listed on page 28.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Wild Thing, Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel

Postby Batgirl III » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:36 pm

Like I said, it's a very debatable criteria... clearly, the answer is to draw up M&M3e stats for both and let them duke it out! We're the Roll Call Forum, it's what we do!

Moby Dick vs. Shamu and Willy... two species enter, one species leaves!
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Re: Jab's Builds: Wild Thing, Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:59 am

Good thing I've done builds of all of Cetacea, then :)!

Cetacea (False Killer Whale, Killer Whale)
Cetacea (Sperm Whale, Zeuglodon)

My money's on the Sperm Whale (PL 11 vs. PL 10, and stronger overall), but a group of Killer Whales are kind of a game-breaker given M&M's rules.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Wild Thing, Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Ange

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Oct 19, 2012 1:01 am

Image

Not... the most DYNAMIC of outfits...

Image

ATTABOY.

ZARRKO, THE TOMORROW MAN (Artur Zarrko)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #86 (Nov. 1962)
Role: Throwaway '60s Villain
PL 11 (104)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 9 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (Science) 9 (+18)
Expertise (History) 6 (+15)
Insight 2 (+5)
Perception 2 (+5)
Persuasion 6 (+9)
Technology 10 (+19)
Vehicles 3 (+7)

Advantages:
Equipment 10 (Any Sort of Gear), Inventor, Ranged Attack 6

Equipment:
"Super-Gear"
"Radiation Gun" Blast 10 (20)
"Time Cube" Movement 3 (Time Travel 3) (6)
"Force Field Projector" Force Field 14 (Extras: Impervious 15) (29)

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Radiation Gun +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +5 (DC 15), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +3 (+17 Force Field), Fortitude +3, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Power, Ending Thor)- Zarrko came back to the modern era to stop Thor before he took over the world. But it's pretty apparent that he also wants to put himself in charge of everything.

Total: Abilities: 58 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 7 (104)

-Zarrko has a pretty cool concept (rather unusual for comics, though I assume Stan & Jack lifted it from some sci-fi story or another, as was usual for comic books at the time), that of a Civil Servant from the future who builds a time machine and goes back to the modern era to steal some weapons and rule his future. Unfortunately for Zarrko, Thor used his Hammer That Can Do Everything to go forward in time and beat the bad guy. Basically, it was a total throwaway one-shot story to fill space in Thor's book- the 1960s were a grand, inventive time for comics, but they definitely maintained their fair share of Filler. He would reappear a couple times over the years for other one-shots against Thor (including a fight against Kang in what I'm assuming is "Marvel Team-Up" since it had a Spidey/Iron Man team fighting them).

-Part of his gimmick seems to be to con/coerce the heroes into aiding him against a worse foe (Kang, Zarrko's timeline's rulers, The Time-Twisters), only to betray them or be betrayed. He even conned Dargo (the Thor of the 26th Century) into fighting Thor & Beta-Ray Bill, but the "Thor Corps" (I swear to God they made a Series III "Team-Up" card with that very name). Later on, they revealed that the world government he was trying to unseat was actually ruled by a cruel & inhuman Thor, and so Zarrko's plan was to stop Thor in the past to save the world, making him a bit more of an extremist.

-Zarrko is less of a "fight the hero" kind of guy, and more of a "plan an adventure around him" kind of guy- GMs/writers tend to use him as the guy to base a small adventure around, typically involving Giant Robot Minions, Time Travel, or some bizarre scheme to set up the hero to fight some OTHER sort of threat, before ultimately trouncing Zarrko in the end. He's an inventor and super-genius (rivalling Mister Fantastic & Doctor Doom in this respect, but being less smart overall- essentially, he's SMART, but his high Skills come from being in a future time where this stuff is more mundane, and thus it's more Skill-focused than actual Intelligence). His best thing in a fight is his Force Field Projector, allowing him to take Thor-class punishment while still being unable to be much of a fighter.

---

Image

SERVITOR
Role:
Zarrko's Minion
PL 11 (108)
STRENGTH
14 STAMINA -- AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS -- PRESENCE -2

Skills:
Intimidation 8 (+6, +12 Size)
Ranged Combat (Blasts) 4 (+10)

Advantages:
Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Robot" Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Protection 2 (Extras: Impervious 11) [13]
Energy Blasts 12 (Feats: Penetrating 5) [17]
Growth 12 (Str & Toughness +12, +12 Mass, +6 Intimidation, -6 Dodge/Parry, +1 Speed, -12 Stealth) -- (48 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [25]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Energy Blasts +8 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +14 (+6 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will --

Total: Abilities: -4 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 85 / Defenses: 14 (108)

-Servitor is basically Zarrko's personal Minion, and he's generally just SUPER-strong and SUPER-tough, and enough to keep Thor or somebody busy for a while.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Wild Thing, Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Ange

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:20 am

Image

COUNT NEFARIA (Luchino Nefaria)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: The Avengers #13 (Feb. 1965)
Role: '60s Villain Turned Evil Superman, Mob Boss
Group Affiliations: The Maggia, The Lethal Legion
PL 16 (298)
STRENGTH
20 STAMINA 16 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 5

Skills:
Deception 6 (+11)
Expertise (Criminal) 8 (+13)
Expertise (Business) 4 (+9)
Insight 2 (+6)
Intimidation 1 (+6)
Perception 2 (+6)
Persuasion 1 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Lasers) 2 (+12)

Advantages:
Benefit (Wealth) 5, Close Attack, Fast Grab, Improved Critical 2 (Blast, Unarmed), Last Stand, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Enhanced Versions of Super-Villains' Powers"
"Power-Man/Erik Josten"
Power-Lifting 4 (200,000 tons) [4]
Protection 5 (Extras: Impervious 13) [18]
"Ionic Being" Immunity 11 (Aging, Life Support) [11]
Regeneration 8 [8]

"Whirlwind"
Flight 12 (8,000 mph) [24]
Enhanced Advantages 2: Improved Initiative 2 [2]

"Living Laser"
Blast 18 (Feats: Penetrating 8) (44) -- [46]
    AE: "Laser Burst" Damage 16 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (38)
    AE: "Ionic Constructs" Create 18 (36)
Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+20 Damage, DC 35)
Laser Blast +12 (+18 Ranged Damage, DC 33)
Laser Burst +16 Area (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +21, Fortitude +16, Will +8

Complications:
Involuntary Transformation (Ionic Being)- Nefaria is sometimes prone to losing cohesion and becoming energy- he needs to absorb some energy first. This has faded over time, but his daughter Madame Masque once shot him with something that could do it.

Total: Abilities: 134 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 18 / Powers: 113 / Defenses: 20 (298)

-Count Nefaria's a bit funny because he seemed at first to be a forgettable '60s villain. He was the first guy revealed to be in "The Maggia" (aka The Mafia but Marvel didn't want to get blown up by the then-powerful Five Families), and was generally just a crimeboss, trying to frame The Avengers for doing bad things in the age-old "Imposter Heroes" type of story. He only made a handful of appearances, spending several years on the shelf before returning to fight the All-New X-Men, which was the mission where Thunderbird was killed. In a move I've always found bizarre, why did the X-Men NEVER GO FOR REVENGE? Seriously, this guy got the first-known X-fatality, and John Proudstar's OWN BROTHER was a major character in a few books. They barely even mention HOW Proudstar died or who he died fighting- they just go "oh, he died. That sucked." and blame themselves.

-Nefaria would eventually gain superhuman powers, and a SERIOUS supply of them at that. Nefaria became a full-blown Teamwrecker, taking on entire Avengers squads. His powers were Ionically-based (like Wonder Man & Atlas' powers), and resulted in the resurrections and dispersals common of such folks. Despite his advanced powers, he's typically only trotted out for mini-storylines and no major events- for all his toughness, writers just aren't that taken with him in general. Maybe it's because he's objectively pretty bland beyond "I want to get chicks" (villains have been made off of less, but it makes him rather one-note compared to other power-hungry despots), and his costume is entirely dull. And also his power-ups happened much more recently in stories people tend to forget about.

-Nefaria is incredibly powerful overall. He can dish out +20 Damage, and take even MORE than that (he's taken Wonder Man's punches and not even flinched, and laughed off THOR's attacks, up to and including catching Mjolnir with one hand! He can and has taken on the entirety of The Avengers and The Thunderbolts at once (something even The Silver Surfer could not do), making him one of the most powerful villains any hero team has ever faced. Given the way M&M fights can normally go (with teams greatly overpowering solo characters) this is tough to stat without making him PL 20 or something, but his high toughness and Regeneration should take care of it. At PL 16, he's equivalent in power to Graviton (his nearest competitor in terms of "Rarely-appearing super-villains with IMMENSE team-wrecking potential), The World-Serpent, Cassandra Nova and Thanos at his baseline, which sounds about right, despite his relative lack of use in the world of comics.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel, Count Nefaria

Postby Devastation Bob » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:32 am

Which is more powerful, Zarko's Time Cube or Gene Ray's Time Cube?
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Re: Jab's Builds: Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel, Count Nefaria

Postby Batgirl III » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:42 am

I think the big problem with Count Nefaria -- other than the daft costume -- is that he was originally created as a parody/homage/take-that of Silver-Age Superman. With all the story-telling problems of Silver-Age Superman -- who is basically the poster-boy of the Boring Invincible Hero -- but none of the room for the character development, tension, or drama that makes Superman interesting to read. Nefaria's a villain, he shows up for a few pages of gloating in the early issues in an arc, the big fight at the end, and the reader moves on.

Plus, with Nefaria not really being redeemable or sympathetic, you can't even hand a decent anti-villain or villain protagonist story on him. He's just kind of a jerk... but, in the context of M&M3e he's a useful jerk to have in mind in case your players' superteam gets too big for their spandex breeches.

Devastation Bob wrote:Which is more powerful, Zarko's Time Cube or Gene Ray's Time Cube?


Oh my lord. If this forum had a "Like" button I would be pressing it sooo hard right now. :D
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Re: Jab's Builds: Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel, Count Nefaria

Postby Earth-Two_Kenn » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:54 am

12 Parry and 21 Toughness make the Count PL 17. Well 16.5 and we round up. Excellent build for him, though.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel, Count Nefaria

Postby Jabroniville » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:03 pm

ah, right- I kept bouncing his fighting ability and toughness up to make him more powerful (I gave him Above-Thor stats, but realized he was still only a PL 15 guy fighting off the ENTIRE AVENGERS INCLUDING PL 14 THOR), but missed one. Really, PL 16.5 COULD be accurate too, but I think he can go a bit lower.

What's Gene Ray's Time Cube? Do I lose my Dork Card for not knowing that?

But I agree about Nefaria sucking overall as a character- he basically exists JUST to be this big powerful guy with nothing else really going on for him. Even arseholes like Dr. Doom have great characters, but Nefaria's just a goon.
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Re: Jab's Builds: Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel, Count Nefaria

Postby Devastation Bob » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:46 pm

Not your Comic Dork card, just your Internet Dork card. Google or Wiki it, then prepare for a headache if you try and understand it.
We really shook the pillars of heaven, didn't we, Wang? --Jack Burton
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Re: Jab's Builds: Sleepwalker, Cobweb, Dark Angel, Count Nefaria

Postby Narsil » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:48 pm

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