My first builds

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jacklang
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My first builds

Postby jacklang » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:44 pm

Hi

i'm very new to the game and was wondering if i'm doing it right... i have D&D experience, but this is different of course. i'd like to post some 3E builds here and get feedback & such...

(i'll start with an sort of uncomplicated one :) )

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Lady Granato

Postby jacklang » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:01 am

Lady Granato

PL: 10
Concept: Incredibly fast flyer with blasts
Occupation: Musician and taxi driver (and superhero obv...)
Real name: Calogera Moceri
Legal status: Italian citizen, unmarried, no criminal record (but was arrested a few times for
fighting and other unruly behaviour)
Identity: Secret
Place of birth: Maugeri, Italy
Height: 1.76 meters (5'9”)
Weight: 72 kg (159 lbs)
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Black

Abilities – 28 points
Strength 0, Agility 4, Dexterity 4, Stamina 1, Fighting 1, Intellect 2, Awareness 2, Presence 0

Advantages – 10 points
Great Endurance, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Languages 2 (Italian, English, French), Precise Attack 2 (Ranged Cover, Ranged Concealment), Teamwork, Evasion 2

Skills – 16 points
Ranged Combat: Plasma Burst 7 (+11), Unarmed Combat 6 (+7), Insight 6 (+8), Investigation 6 (+8), Perception 6 (+8)

Powers – 68 points
Flight (45,000 km/h; 28,000 miles)
Flight 14 (Subtle +2, Aquatic +1 (25,000 km/h; 15,500 miles)) – 31 points

Protection 7 (Impervious +1/r, Subtle +2, Limited: only when flying -1/r) – 9 points

Plasma Bursts
Damage 9 (Ranged +1/r, Multiattack +1/r, Affect Insubstantial +1) – 28 points

Offense
Initiative +4
Plasma Burst: Ranged Multiattack Damage 9, +11 (DC 24)
Unarmed +7 (DC 10)

Defense – 28 points
Dodge +8=12 (17 vs Area effects), Parry +6=7, Fortitude +6=7 (12 vs Environmental hazards), Toughness =1 (8 when flying), Will +8=10

Points – 150 points
Abilities 28 + Powers 68 + Advantages 10 + Skills 16 + Defenses 28 = 150

Complications

Motivation: Justice (Calogera has a particular hatred towards white-collar criminals and lawmakers and -keepers that abuse their power.)

Reputation/Secret Identity (Authorities are looking to arrest Lady Granato, considering her a dangerous vigilante even though the general public is a big fan.)

Temper (Calogera is quick to anger in general, but particularly sexism gets her quite irate.)

Background

Calogera was born into a pretty normal, middle-class family. As a child she preferred to play outside with boys, climbing trees or rocks, fighting, building rafts, and so forth.
At age thirteen Calogera started learning to play the guitar. Soon, she was inspired by punk music and started playing in a band, which broke up, then a new band, and so on. She wasn't very interested in school, and at age eighteen started working as a taxi driver.
When her powers first manifested she was sleeping. When she woke up, she found herself in the Netherlands, having no idea how she got there. After figuring out her powers she decided to use them to 'fight the powers that be', as they say. Her first fight, however, was against a paramilitary group of neo-nazis in Italy. Taking them out granted her a popular reputation of course, but authorities, although happy with this particular action, distrusted a civilian vigilante, as they do with most superheroes.


Metagame notes

An intentional weakness of this character is that she relies for a huge part on her powers; without them, she's just a foul-mouthed punk. Nullification would be a great weapon against her.
Last edited by jacklang on Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: My first builds

Postby kenseido » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:39 am

I do not believe Flight is PL capped. There is no save involved, and that is generally the rule on whether a power is capped or not.
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Re: Lady Granato

Postby Karma » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:41 am

jacklang wrote:Lady Granato
Powers – 77 points
Flight (45,000 km/h; 28,000 miles)
Flight 14 (Subtle +2, Aquatic +1 (25,000 km/h; 15,500 miles)) – 31 points
linked to
Protection 7 (Impervious +1/r, Subtle +2, Limited: only when flying -1/r) – 9 points

It doesn't really make sense to Link these. Your Limited flaw covers it better.

jacklang wrote:Plasma Bursts
Damage 9 (Perception Ranged +2/r, Multiattack +1/r, Affect Insubstantial +1) – 37 points

Perception-ranged attacks don't have attack rolls, so Multiattack doesn't make sense here. Nor do the Ranged Combat ranks or the Precise Attack advantages. I'd drop it to ranged.

jacklang wrote:Offense
Initiative +4
Plasma Burst: Perception Multiattack Damage 9, +12 (DC 24)

Assuming you do drop it to ranged, though, this breaks PL caps. Her attack bonus + damage rank can't exceed twice her power level. 9 + 12 = 21 > 20

jacklang wrote:Defense – 25 points
Dodge +6=10 (15 vs Area effects), Parry +5=6, Fortitude +5=7 (12 vs Environmental hazards), Toughness =1 (8 when flying), Will +8=10

She's a little weak here. Not too bad, but you usually want Dodge (or Parry for close-up fighters) + Toughness to equal the PL cap. She's at 18 here, and you're aiming for 20.
Her Parry can be a little lower, since hand-to-hand isn't her specialty, but hers might still be a little too low. The Energy Controller archetype has a low Parry, too, but she has that energy aura power to dissuade close attackers from hitting her in the first place.

jacklang wrote:The Flight 14 is illegal in respect to PL-limit right? The thing is: the original premise for her was: she flies around the Earth in an hour. I don't want her to be PL14 though... Any advise on how to fix this?

Flight isn't restricted by PL at all, so no.

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Re: My first builds

Postby jacklang » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:04 am

:) thanks a lot! I've edited:

No more linked

Dropped the perception, raised Dodge by two and Parry by one (or should it be higher still?). And put the Ranged skill one lower, to meet the powercap. That actually brings it to a clean 150 power points :)

And i'm very happy the Flight is no problem :)

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Re: My first builds

Postby digitalangel » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:21 pm

You aren't required to hit PL caps on anything, they are simply a ceiling. Although the 15PPs per PL is a guideline too, you can technically have a 150PP PL 7 character, it is just really rare.

Usuaully unless it is not a combat focused caharacter, most people would have at least one attack that caps PL and either dodge or parry depending on if it is meant to be a close or ranged character. This is not a requirement though, but is a good idea if the character is meant to go toe to toe with others at teh same PL.
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Re: My first builds

Postby JDRook » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:17 am

A few additional notes:

- Her DEX isn't doing her any favours. In theory, you could drop her DEX to 0, buy up her Ranged Combat: Plasma Blast to +11, saving 6p with no loss of current functionality. On the other hand, it's usually reasonable to keep DEX and AGI relatively close to each other for conceptual purposes, so you could split the difference. Maybe give her DEX 2, Ranged Attack 2, which would maintain her +4 Throwing bonus and save 2p for other stuff.

- The Improved Trip and Disarm will work great with her Plasma Blast, allowing her to do both at range without penalty. Her close combat is weak, which as you say is intentional: her +7 makes her a very precise PL4 offensively, but with STR 0 she can't even use a free Power attack maneuver to increase her effect. She's also PL4 defensively without the field, so she's on par with most minion types in a PL10 game. Since her focus is more corruption than supervillainy, this will probably work out fine.

- If the concept is that she can fly around the world in an hour, she can therefore fly to any point in the world in half an hour or less, because why go the long way around a sphere? If you just want her to reach any point within an hour, you could easily drop to rank 13. There's also the concept of double-moving, where you use your standard and move actions each turn both as move actions, which effectively increases your speed by one rank in exchange for not making standard actions like attacks, in essence a noncombat speed. Taking that even further, you could have a combat flight speed (say rank 8, which breaks the sound barrier as a double-move) and buy additional ranks with Distracting so you fly in a straight, predictable manner with lower defences. Just suggestions to trim down you most expensive power.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Re: My first builds

Postby jacklang » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:03 pm

thanks for the input, i always do tend to focus on fluff and forget optimization :)

it's true that she's very vulnerable, but that was the idea and she's just gonna stay high above battlegrounds and keep moving anyway, right?

i like this dex and agility because it gives the idea of a fit, athletic person.

i'll just like to keep the speed too, thanks :) (mach 32.652! that's faster than iron man right?)

below another character, sort of an antihero or a goodguy villain. i could keep tweaking it forever, but here we go...

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Re: My first builds

Postby jacklang » Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:10 pm

The Man In Rags

PL: 12
Concept: Catburglar with alien technology in his skin
Occupation: Thief and assassin
Real name: Orion Malhotra
Legal status: Deceased, extensive criminal record.
Identity: Secret
Place of birth: Haliyal, India
Height: 1.96 meters (6'5”)
Weight: 84 kg (185 lbs)
Eyes: Brown
Hair: Black

Points – 186 points
Abilities 52 + Powers 44 + Advantages 53 + Skills 19 + Defenses 17 = 186

Abilities – 52 points
Strength 5, Agility 7, Dexterity 7, Stamina 6, Fighting 3, Intellect 1, Awareness 4, Presence -1

Advantages – 53 points
Benefit: Cipher, Close Combat 13 (+16), Contacts, Defensive Roll 4, Equipment 6, Hide in Plain Sight, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Languages 2 (Hindi, English, Mandarin, Russian), Move-by Action, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged Cover & Concealment), Quick Draw, Ranged Combat 14 (+21), Throwing Mastery 2 (handaxe), Uncanny Dodge, Benefit: Wealth 2, Weapon Bind

Skills – 19 points
Acrobatics 8 (+15), Athletics 9 (+15), Investigation 10 (+11), Stealth 10 (+17)

Powers – 44 points
ReB2 Technosymbiont Epidermal Infusion
Enhanced Trait 3 (Strength and Stamina) – 12 points

Protection 5 (Impervious +1/r, Noticeable -1) – 9 points

Regeneration 10 (Source: electricity -1/r) – 5 points

Strength-based Damage 3 (Penetrating 1/r, Variable Descriptor: Melee Weapons, Feature: changes from and back into hands) – 8 points

Mind Reading 11 (Cumulative +1/r, Effortless +1/r, Grab-based -2/r, Feedback -1/r,
Noticeable -1) – 10 points

Defense – 17 points
Dodge +2=9, Parry +6=9, Fortitude +3=9, Toughness =15 (11 when vulnerable or defenseless), Will +6=10

Equipment – 29 equipment points
4 Handaxes (16), Bow (6), Lock-release Gun, Night-vision Goggles, Gasmask, Multitool, Minitracer, Handcuffs, Smartphone


Offense
Initiative +11
Bow: Ranged Damage 3, +21 (DC 18)
Handaxe: Ranged Damage 4, +20 (DC 19)
Morphweapon: Damage 8, +16 (DC 23)
Unarmed: Damage 5, +16 (DC 20)

Complications

Motivation: Greed (Orion works exclusively for handsome fees and rewards. He doesn't mind stealing or double-crossing. His hunger for money may well cause a lapse in judgment.)

Secret (Orion does not reveal his face, not even to his employers and he keeps all information about him secret, from fear of reprisals or authorities.)

Background

Orion was born very poor and quickly came into contact with local criminals. He was very talented and grew a reputation as a qualified and reliable hired hand. He took an apprenticeship with a famous thief and thus learned the trade. He disappeared off of everyone's radar when he faked his own death and ran off with two million US dollars of a Chinese crimelord's money.
Continuing his work secretly, and above all anonymously, the people that he works for often refer to him as just 'the man in rags', after his loose-fitting outfit of old, wrapped around cloths.
On a mission to steal alien technology from a Korean army base, Orion was attacked by the technology, which created a symbiotic relationship between the two. It enhances Orion and through Orion it can experience things.
Though preferring his own line of work, Orion has been known to selflessly help during particularly volatile crises.


Metagame notes

This one's more complicated I feel... I'm not sure if I got the equipment and their points right. I treated the Handaxes (or Throwing Axes) as the Javelins described in the book.

The idea for the hands is that they can change into melee weapons and back. So he can gain a weapon at the cost of a hand. At first I was trying a Morph thing until I thought that the effect I want to achieve isn't really morphing, that's just fluff. The effect I want is damage. Did I think right? Better suggestions for this power?

The technology's made of rhenium diboride, a very shiny and remarkably strong metal alloy. This is represented by the Noticeable flaw. The Mindreading also gets it, because the idea is that to do it, the tech has to flow out and cover a sizable part of the target's head. I suppose I'm right in thinking the Morphweapon doesn't get this because that's obviously, inherently noticeable...

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Re: My first builds

Postby JDRook » Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:40 pm

jacklang wrote:i like this dex and agility because it gives the idea of a fit, athletic person.

I respectfully disagree, at least in terms of DEX. The trouble is, Dexterity used to be one attribute in M&M2e (and most d20 RPGs) and when they broke it into two different traits in 3e the really central aspects of Dexterity (or at least the ones I would associate with "a fit, athletic person") are now called AGILITY, handling all the nimbleness involved in controlling one's own body (Dodging, Acrobatics, Stealth). 3e DEX, on the other hand, is largely about the hands; namely, how well one can manipulate objects (Ranged Weapons, Vehicles, Sleight of Hand). So DEX is something I would give to snipers and surgeons; jugglers and burglars; pilots, pianists and pickpockets, but not necessarily to general athletes.

Of course, this is my interpretation bias of DEX. It's not necessarily congruent with the official builds, because if it was, any animal that didn't at least have an opposable thumb should probably have a negative DEX score, meaning they would manipulate things less well than an average unskilled human. But check the Animals in the GM section and come up with your own explanation of how a shark is equally dextrous with an ape and moreso than a hawk or an average human.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Re: My first builds

Postby JDRook » Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:45 am

jacklang wrote:The Man In Rags

This one is a little messier than your first one. I'll go through it in order.
jacklang wrote:Points – 186 points
Abilities 52 + Powers 44 + Advantages 53 + Skills 19 + Defenses 17 = 186

Numbers aren't quite right, but that's a minor concern until we get the rest sorted out.
jacklang wrote:Abilities – 52 points
Strength 5, Agility 7, Dexterity 7, Stamina 6, Fighting 3, Intellect 1, Awareness 4, Presence -1

Advantages – 53 points
Benefit: Cipher, Close Combat 13 (+16), Contacts, Defensive Roll 4, Equipment 6, Hide in Plain Sight, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Languages 2 (Hindi, English, Mandarin, Russian), Move-by Action, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged Cover & Concealment), Quick Draw, Ranged Combat 14 (+21), Throwing Mastery 2 (handaxe), Uncanny Dodge, Benefit: Wealth 2, Weapon Bind

Skills – 19 points
Acrobatics 8 (+15), Athletics 9 (+15), Investigation 10 (+11), Stealth 10 (+17)

There's a few issues here and they cross over in these three sections. The most obvious are the Close Attack and Ranged Attack Advantages. They are surprisingly high, and the Ranged bonus (+21) combined with the handaxe damage (+4) pushes PL to 13.

This may be more about style and layout, but is there any reason you didn't just get Fighting 9 and then add on the extra Close Attack ranks? If FGT 3 is his basic unenhanced ability, why not have FGT +6 from the symbiont along with the extra STR and STA?

I think I understand why you went with the Attack Advantages rather than Combat Skills; you have two different kinds of Ranged weapons and potentially several kinds of melee weapons. I'd ask if your concept really requires two largely similar ranged damage attacks or if you might want to pick one and specialize in it with the cheaper Ranged Skill ranks. Also, a generous GM might allow a single Close Combat Skill: Transformed Weapons as a "tight group", although they may decide that there should be no bonus when Unarmed in that case, and you definitely wouldn't be able to use that bonus for Grabs or Trips.

Then there's your Abilities and Skills. While there's nothing wrong with them individually, the combination seems strange considering what's missing. I won't rehash the DEX issue above, but your concept is a thief, and despite his high DEX he has no ranks in Sleight of Hand? And what about some Deception to aid in hiding his identity?


jacklang wrote:Powers – 44 points
ReB2 Technosymbiont Epidermal Infusion
Enhanced Trait 3 (Strength and Stamina) – 12 points

Protection 5 (Impervious +1/r, Noticeable -1) – 9 points

Regeneration 10 (Source: electricity -1/r) – 5 points

Strength-based Damage 3 (Penetrating 1/r, Variable Descriptor: Melee Weapons, Feature: changes from and back into hands) – 8 points

Mind Reading 11 (Cumulative +1/r, Effortless +1/r, Grab-based -2/r, Feedback -1/r,
Noticeable -1) – 10 points

It's common for powers to mess up newbies, but you've done quite well. The Hand Weapons power is a very common trope and you actually went with what I usually recommend (Variable Descriptor Damage) instead of the more common, more problematic and more expensive Variable Effect or Shapeshift. If anything, I wouldn't think you'd need the Feature to use your hands; if the power completely replaced your hands with weapons (a la Edward Scissorhands) I would call that a Complication. The point you save could be put into a rank of Improved Critical with the hand weapon to make it more on par with standard weapon builds.

The Mind Reading is also well-built, although I'm not 100% on how it works. It would have to be Close Range before it can be Grab-Based, so from Perception to Ranged to Close that's actually one more -1 Flaw, bringing the total cost down to 5p.

jacklang wrote:Defense – 17 points
Dodge +2=9, Parry +6=9, Fortitude +3=9, Toughness =15 (11 when vulnerable or defenseless), Will +6=10

Keep in mind that 3e Impervious is only effective up to half rank, so up to rank 3 for your build. That will make him effectively immune to most low calibre firearms and mundane human attacks, but not much more. You could buy extra Impervious ranks up to your 11 Toughness (not including Defensive Roll) and have it block any attack rank 6 and under, which would hold off light machine gun fire.

jacklang wrote:Equipment – 29 equipment points
4 Handaxes (16), Bow (6), Lock-release Gun, Night-vision Goggles, Gasmask, Multitool, Minitracer, Handcuffs, Smartphone

It's not really necessary to buy multiples of a weapon unless you plan on wielding 2 (or more) at once. Like ammunition or arrows, it would be assumed you had enough throwing axes to throw for a while, although the GM can have you run out when it makes sense for the story, which is the inherent limit of equipment. In short, you could say you have 4 or 6 axes on you, but I don't think you need to pay for more than 2.

jacklang wrote:Offense
Initiative +11
Bow: Ranged Damage 3, +21 (DC 18)
Handaxe: Ranged Damage 4, +20 (DC 19)
Morphweapon: Damage 8, +16 (DC 23)
Unarmed: Damage 5, +16 (DC 20)

Not sure why the Bow and Handaxe attack bonuses are different. Could either be a typo or something left out in the build.

jacklang wrote:Complications

Motivation: Greed (Orion works exclusively for handsome fees and rewards. He doesn't mind stealing or double-crossing. His hunger for money may well cause a lapse in judgment.)

Secret (Orion does not reveal his face, not even to his employers and he keeps all information about him secret, from fear of reprisals or authorities.)

Again, you might want to give him some Deception ranks so that he's not a below-average liar; he should be relatively good at it.

Finally, I might ask if he really needs to be PL12. A character like this might fit better in a more street-level setting, in the PL8-10 range, and it would be a simple as dropping some of those Attack ranks and the Defensive Rolls.

Overall, not a bad character. I have a similarly-themed one myself: a catburglar infected with a piece of alien tech, only its powers are gravity-based. I really need to update it for 3e now. :)
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

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Re: My first builds

Postby jacklang » Tue Mar 18, 2014 8:53 am

i'm (supposed to be) working now, so i'll edit later, but thanks!

i agree that it makes more sense to just up the Fighting rank. i want to keep it as an advantage, because the character should have been able to fight before he got his alien powers. the two ranged skills might weird. i'll change to just the bow.

of course he should have Sleight of Hand, oversight on my part, thanks! deception is also a good idea :)

i guess it makes sense that the morphweapon power doesn't even need the feature. it's just a weapon that's not Removeable, after all. Improved crit does seem to make sense with the weapons listed in the book, i'll look into that.

i actually already thought the mindreading's grab-based should give a -3/r, but felt sort of guilty about it... it sort of seems i'll have a pretty good mindreading for only 5 points...

Keep in mind that 3e Impervious is only effective up to half rank, so up to rank 3 for your build. That will make him effectively immune to most low calibre firearms and mundane human attacks, but not much more


cool! that was exactly the idea :D

It's not really necessary to buy multiples of a weapon unless you plan on wielding 2 (or more) at once. Like ammunition or arrows, it would be assumed you had enough throwing axes to throw for a while, although the GM can have you run out when it makes sense for the story, which is the inherent limit of equipment. In short, you could say you have 4 or 6 axes on you, but I don't think you need to pay for more than 2 .


ok, so i don't pay for every hammer :) , guess that's a D&D way of thinking eh?

Not sure why the Bow and Handaxe attack bonuses are different. Could either be a typo or something left out in the build.


i put the handaxe lower to meet the PL-limit requirement, but i'll change that anyhow now...

Finally, I might ask if he really needs to be PL12. A character like this might fit better in a more street-level setting, in the PL8-10 range, and it would be a simple as dropping some of those Attack ranks and the Defensive Rolls.


well, he used to be in the superhero/villain league before he got the alien thing (PL9 or 10 i guess, despite the secret identity a world-famous thief) and then got the powers as a bonus.



thank you (yet again :) ) very much for the extensive feedback!


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