Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

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prufock
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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby prufock » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:26 am

saint_matthew wrote:At no point does he make either a correlative or causative connection between IQ and occupational status. He does make a correlative link between occupational status and IQ, but thats by no means the same statment.

Correlation between IQ and occupational status is the same thing as a correlation between occupational status and IQ. Correlation is a two-way statistic, all it means is that the variables vary together. If you run the comparison in statistical software you get the same number regardless of which is variable 1 and which is variable 2.

IQ =/= Knowledge

Red herring. Nowhere have I claimed it is. Perhaps you're (at least in part) misunderstanding my argument. The question under discussion is whether IQ tests are a valid indicator of intelligence.

To summarize my points:
1. Contradiction of your claim that engineers are likely to score 100 (average) on IQ tests. Engineers are in the top occupational status groups and income levels, both of which correlate with IQ. Intuitively, engineers must also be good at problem solving. Engineers are likely to score well above average. A web search for "IQ by occupation" will show some averages. You also claim that experts in a subject are not likely to have a higher than normal IQ. This is contradicted by the IQ-education/occupational success link. You haven't refuted either of these.
2. We define intelligence in a number of ways. IQ is correlated with several things which are commonly identified with intelligence - financial success, educational success, occupational performance, career status, scores on other exams such as school tests, brain size, etc. You haven't refuted any of this, only made the claim that this isn't true. These correlations can be found in a number of published sources, indicating you either don't believe those sources or have some other reason to disagree, which you haven't explained.
3. The ability to manipulate scores on a test through practice, rote memorization, or situational factors is a flimsy argument to consider the test invalid, since most tests can be "cheated" in these ways. Without specific intentional manipulation, retesting shows a reliable range of scores.

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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby saint_matthew » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:01 pm

prufock wrote:Correlation between IQ and occupational status is the same thing as a correlation between occupational status and IQ. Correlation is a two-way statistic, all it means is that the variables vary together.


No it isn't: You've fallen foul of the statistical inverse law (its pretty common). Heres a pair of real world example: 100% of paternity fraud is committed by women (its a crime that cannot be committed by men), does that mean that 100% of women commit paternity fraud?

Or my favourite: Sociopaths are more likely then not to have been assualted by there parents when growing up, continuing the cycle of violence. Yet the predominate trend in kids being assualted by parents when growing up, isn't for those kids to turn into sociopaths themselves.

An with that mate, i'm afraid to say this discussion has to draw to a close. Between the two of us, one of us is studying this as a part of a teritiary courseload & the other is not... An with hell week closing fast, i don't really have the time to keep on disabusing you of concepts you've googled. :D
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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby peregrine » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:16 pm

Try "Paternity fraud is committed by more women than men." Thus, "More women than men commit paternity fraud."

(assuming that men cannot commit paternity fraud, by denying that they're the father, for example)

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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby saint_matthew » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:42 am

peregrine wrote:(assuming that men cannot commit paternity fraud, by denying that they're the father, for example)


Thats not paternity fraud. Its not even fraud.

But unfortunately, like i said i have little time to continue this topic... Exams and all.

I'm going to be so happy when this term is over... I'll have time to actually game again. I can't believe i've only gamed once since Feb.
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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby Cinder » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:04 am

saint_matthew wrote:
peregrine wrote:(assuming that men cannot commit paternity fraud, by denying that they're the father, for example)


Thats not paternity fraud. Its not even fraud.



A male plaintiff in a divorce proceeding might commit a fraud on the court by claiming paternity of a child in an attempt to gain custody in a bitter divorce proceeding. This might be done for monetary reasons, not mere spite.

Such a claim would be a bad move if the court ordered DNA testing. Nonetheless, people do stupid things thinking that they are going to get away with them.

As unlikely as the above scenario might seem, keep in mind that family law is a tough business. The things that people do when kids, emotions and money are involved are crazy.

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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby prufock » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:27 am

saint_matthew wrote:No it isn't: You've fallen foul of the statistical inverse law (its pretty common).

Not relevant, and I'll show my work, as they used to say in school. Using your example,

saint_matthew wrote:100% of paternity fraud is committed by women (its a crime that cannot be committed by men), does that mean that 100% of women commit paternity fraud?

Fraud/Gender
1/1
0/1
0/1
0/2
0/2
0/2
0/2
0/2
0/1
0/1
1/1
1/1
1/1
0/2
0/2
0/2
0/2
0/2
0/1
0/1

Whether a person commits fraud is 0=no, 1=yes. Gender is 1=female, 2=male. In accordance with your rules, only females are paired with fraud. There are 50% males, 50% females, and 25% frauds. Running the correlation, regardless of the order of variables, gives the following matrix:
............Fraud...Gender
Fraud........1.......-0.5
Gender....-0.5........1
As you'd expect, variables are perfectly correlated with themselves. As I would expect, but you wouldn't, the correlation between gender and fraud is the same as the correlation between fraud and gender. This isn't some artifact of the particular numbers I chose either. Feel free to plug new numbers of the same form into your own statistical software and run correlations. Or do it by hand if you want the practice. The same will be true of abuse/sociopathy and IQ/occupational status.

Good luck on your exams!

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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby saint_matthew » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:07 pm

prufock wrote:Good luck on your exams!


Dude, i'm going to need it. Not only do i have exams, i also have to teach a class today. For 50 minutes i have a class room booked & for 30 of those minutes i'm teaching a practical class, as my final exam for that class. Peer reviewed & complete with class auditor, who happens to also be the person setting the academic work placements for next year.

At no point have i ever been so happy for having 10+ years of GMing experience. Turns out its essentiall the same thing. You show up, you tell your players/trainees whats going on & then youo try to let them be as hands on as possible.
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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:52 am

Okay, i'm back. Just thought i'd let you know how it went... Lets put it this way, if i were Sentry (and not dead) i could legitimately say "i nailed that exam with the power of a thousand exploding suns."
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov

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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby prufock » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:25 am

saint_matthew wrote:Dude, i'm going to need it. Not only do i have exams, i also have to teach a class today. For 50 minutes i have a class room booked & for 30 of those minutes i'm teaching a practical class, as my final exam for that class. Peer reviewed & complete with class auditor, who happens to also be the person setting the academic work placements for next year.

I really, really don't miss school.

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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby Kevin_MacTaggert » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:38 pm

Einstein stated I.Q. tests were more a test of memory than intelligence.

I could be a super-genius with a so-so memory: high-average.

Plodder with great memory: Very-high average.

testing logical comprehension is cagey.

A clever criminal with pLODDER reasoning is still dangerous,

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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby JThunder » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:32 pm

saint_matthew wrote:Okay, i'm back. Just thought i'd let you know how it went... Lets put it this way, if i were Sentry (and not dead) i could legitimately say "i nailed that exam with the power of a thousand exploding suns."

Congrats!

Kevin_MacTaggert wrote:Einstein stated I.Q. tests were more a test of memory than intelligence.

I could be a super-genius with a so-so memory: high-average.

Plodder with great memory: Very-high average.

testing logical comprehension is cagey.

A clever criminal with pLODDER reasoning is still dangerous,

Perhaps my original question should have been about someone who was super clever rather than super intelligent.

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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby BigStereotype » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:35 am

Read a lot of Deathstroke stuff. He's another one of those "prep time" guys like Batman. Also look to Lex Luthor or Emperor Palpatine for more political machinations, which could be a cool angle. Like a political wunderkind who's fed up with the status quo - shouldn't have to dig too deep to be pissed off about some kind of political happening - but is already jaded by some awful experience and is now just out to bleed everyone dry for his own profit?

Read the Art of War and the Prince for ideas on how to attack the heroes on an indirect level, but of course because he's a supervillain, he's a beast of a personal trained warrior.
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Re: Super intelligent villain who isn't a scientist?

Postby gerbilattack » Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:41 pm

Two items which may be of use
Worm
http://parahumans.wordpress.com/

And Red Son
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman:_Red_Son

Spoilers be in this post!





In worm, the main character 'Skitter' shows how a highly intellectual character can leverage people and powers. This leveraging and intellect increases as the story goes on.

In Red Son, Lex Luthor hates superman, and still has giant robots/ect, but in the 3rd Arc you get to see a genius at work [spoiler],as he does most of his fighting in that arc without his super tech, but by using followers (many of which are powered) and manipulation. After wasting the entire green lantern corps he created (by duplicating a lantern's ring) and admitting he knew they did not have a chance. He ends up beating superman with a single sentence. Also Luthor makes a Utopia, cause that what he wanted, but he is a speciest.[/spoiler]




Think like a 'chessmaster.' If you are not a brilliant strategist, one way to play one is by giving the villain 'villain points' and allowing the villain to correct a blunder in planning at the cost of a villain point.

Chessmaster 101: Take out a separate notebook from your usual GMing supplies. Every action the PCs (or NPCs) do that he would hear about note in this notebook. Any time he has a spy, or is on scene, take detailed (rather than sparse) notes. Whenever you make a plan for the chessmaster, read these notes carefully. Never make the same mistake twice. If the heroes are guarding something, find a way to attack it, and have a watcher on scene. If the heroes seem to quickly jump on villains wearing (or that are) black, arrainge for them to encounter a black hero on route to your caper. Set up traps designed for the heroes you believe will arrive (this is also a way to keep 'the JLA' from interfering in your PC vs Chessmaster battle). Give your villain all the useful skills; knowledge, Notice, Stealth, Sleight of hand, Forgery, Bluff, Sense Motive, Diplomacy. Remember not to force your players to abide by a successful diplomacy check. If they have a speedster use tripwires (if speed reduces perception) or Pits (if it does not). Use enclosed spaces to help ward of flyers. Cover your tracks, always. Make sure that before en enemy knows you are there, they have already been dealt with with redundancies. Always have an escape plan. Use ciphers and pawns. Never fully commit, keep a reserve. And above all else make sure that if you are caught you have a safety net, especially if you are unpowered. Never directly commit crimes traceable to you. Keep track of everything you have done, and everything you have done to conceal this. Never do what you cannot undo.
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