Fantasy MnM?

Have an M&M fan Web site? Find a great place to get superhero miniatures? Have miniature conversion tips or any other resources like that? Put 'em in here.
Atori
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Character sheet

Post by Atori » Wed May 09, 2007 11:28 pm

I propably make a fantasy character sheet today... 8)

done.

http://atori.suntuubi.com/datafiles/use ... DSheet.xls

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Re: Fantasy MnM?

Post by Atori » Thu May 10, 2007 5:38 am

JoshuaDunlow wrote:I have been working on my online rp game for irc chat, its a fantasy setting using the MnM system. Just cause i like it so much, http://karmyth-mnm.wikispaces.com is the website for it right now
Thank you for the link!!

I have been trying to find out how to wiki my homepage but it's always limited by internet operator - you get it with money, but now I found a free service!

Thanks.

now what to do with it??

http://artofmagic.wikispaces.com/FantasyMnM

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Post by JoshuaDunlow » Thu May 10, 2007 4:25 pm

Atori wrote:My idea was to steal, plagiate and rob.
HAHAHAHAAHAH! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post by JoshuaDunlow » Thu May 10, 2007 4:29 pm

Graf wrote:I'd be interested in pitching in but the group will need

1. A clearly stated goal:
a) provide toolboxes for different effects but be world independent (probably most popular, but the ideas might not work well together)

b) have a stated design goal
i)mimic DnD/DnD-clones
ii) creat a specific world, defined initially or at a later point

c) benevolent dictator (i.e. somebody takes charge and does directing)

2. Somewhere central to post.
Personally I think a thread is fine. If it gets big or unwieldy then people can move to a wiki.
The main reason is because working by myself is a very daunting task.

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Post by Undique » Thu May 10, 2007 4:44 pm

JoshuaDunlow wrote:
The main reason is because working by myself is a very daunting task.
Are you still looking for someone to bump ideas with.
PM me for my AIM Screen Name.
I have been working on something similar for a friend of mine to use in his DandD campaign, but Id much rather see it go to something using this MandM system. Ill throw some of my ideas at you, and you can use whichever youd like.

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Re: Fantasy MnM?

Post by JoshuaDunlow » Thu May 10, 2007 5:40 pm

Atori wrote:
JoshuaDunlow wrote:I have been working on my online rp game for irc chat, its a fantasy setting using the MnM system. Just cause i like it so much, http://karmyth-mnm.wikispaces.com is the website for it right now
Thank you for the link!!

I have been trying to find out how to wiki my homepage but it's always limited by internet operator - you get it with money, but now I found a free service!

Thanks.

now what to do with it??

http://artofmagic.wikispaces.com/FantasyMnM
Well i checked out your wikispace, pretty good :p

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Post by Graf » Thu May 10, 2007 6:48 pm

JoshuaDunlow wrote:The main reason is because working by myself is a very daunting task.
Understood but -what- are you trying to work on?

Do you just want to convert the PhB? Do you have your own setting you'd like to run?

Fantasy MnM covers everything from DnD to Moorcock's Elric to the Grey Mouser to Steampunk-style manga to Arabian Nights to Perdido Street Station to Fairy Tales to ...

It -looks- like you're doing straight DnD conversions; is that just because that's where you're starting or because that's all you want?

Personally I don't find that very interesting. Except for player character creation can just wing it. AC = Defense. Saving throws stay the same. Everything except "big bosses" are mooks.
You can make an NPC by glancing at the powers of their PrC or whatever in the book and just writing up some similar MnM style stats.

Even if you're doing DnD the question is:
What world? You want to do your own homebrew? Greyhawk? etc. etc.

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Post by JoshuaDunlow » Thu May 10, 2007 7:02 pm

Graf wrote:
JoshuaDunlow wrote:The main reason is because working by myself is a very daunting task.
Understood but -what- are you trying to work on?

Do you just want to convert the PhB? Do you have your own setting you'd like to run?

Fantasy MnM covers everything from DnD to Moorcock's Elric to the Grey Mouser to Steampunk-style manga to Arabian Nights to Perdido Street Station to Fairy Tales to ...

It -looks- like you're doing straight DnD conversions; is that just because that's where you're starting or because that's all you want?

Personally I don't find that very interesting. Except for player character creation can just wing it. AC = Defense. Saving throws stay the same. Everything except "big bosses" are mooks.
You can make an NPC by glancing at the powers of their PrC or whatever in the book and just writing up some similar MnM style stats.

Even if you're doing DnD the question is:
What world? You want to do your own homebrew? Greyhawk? etc. etc.
Actually ive been trying to convert my old D&D world to MnM. Ive done alot of threads of the forum having to do with fantasy, and conversions to a fantasy system. But when i look at all the work that needs to be done, its extremely overwhelming and i get over my head. Though i wouldn't mind working with someone to create a new world, it just be fun to share my passion for fantasy and help create something people can use :)

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Charges

Post by Atori » Fri May 11, 2007 2:29 am

D&D magic should add something like charges limit, but M&M does not have a fitting limitation.
* Draft limit: Rank charges, -1. Wizard can cast one spell per rank in magic, needs a spellbook and one hour of preparing to restore charges.

any -1 flaw gives any magic power under rank 10 way fewer spells than beginning mage in D&D.

Any usage limit in M&M seems way too limiting, point wise it's normally senseless.

for generic freeform fantasy M&M I see no reason to use it.

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Re: Charges

Post by JoshuaDunlow » Fri May 11, 2007 8:45 am

Atori wrote:D&D magic should add something like charges limit, but M&M does not have a fitting limitation.
* Draft limit: Rank charges, -1. Wizard can cast one spell per rank in magic, needs a spellbook and one hour of preparing to restore charges.

any -1 flaw gives any magic power under rank 10 way fewer spells than beginning mage in D&D.

Any usage limit in M&M seems way too limiting, point wise it's normally senseless.

for generic freeform fantasy M&M I see no reason to use it.
Thats a nice start... how about taking it one step further
----
Base Magic Energy = Ranks in Magic
Modifier = Primary Attribute bonus (Int, Wis, or Cha)
Modifier = Make a new feat (that adds a +3 bonus to the energy a wizard has)

Each use of a power is one charge, concentration and Sustained, require 1 charge for the stated duration. Spells that you use Extra effort on double the cost of the spell.

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away from classes

Post by Atori » Sat May 12, 2007 12:53 pm

after formulating d&d i understood the balance behind them. Time to start the fantasy M&M.

Magic is big advantage that is balanced by lowering combat scores.
So... Max attack score is attack plus half of magic score, limited by campaing limit.

Same goes for the defence. Count together defense score plus half of magic rank to find max rank.

I think magic should be bought with a feat.

3p greater magic, any magic can be learned.
2p. Few magical styles.
1p. Ability to learn one style only.
Psionic the same.
2p. All psionic powers.
1p one power.
Thanks to Taliesin, I am starting to understand the system.

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Re: away from classes

Post by JoshuaDunlow » Sat May 12, 2007 1:51 pm

Atori wrote:after formulating d&d i understood the balance behind them. Time to start the fantasy M&M.

Magic is big advantage that is balanced by lowering combat scores.
So... Max attack score is attack plus half of magic score, limited by campaing limit.

Same goes for the defence. Count together defense score plus half of magic rank to find max rank.

I think magic should be bought with a feat.

3p greater magic, any magic can be learned.
2p. Few magical styles.
1p. Ability to learn one style only.
Psionic the same.
2p. All psionic powers.
1p one power.
Remember you also have other options, you can increase the cost of magic as a power this in itself will limit expenditures without putting caps on things. Though yes you could still go 50% limitations on attack and defense.

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Re: away from classes

Post by Atori » Sun May 13, 2007 12:23 pm

Atori wrote: I think magic should be bought with a feat.

3p greater magic, any magic can be learned.
2p. Few magical styles.
1p. Ability to learn one style only.
Psionic the same.
2p. All psionic powers.
1p one power.
But I forgot the important part.

For each magic feat, you need a mystical drawback of equal rank.
Mystical drawback is either weakness or vulnerability, perhaps even disability.

Witches can be vulnerable to salt, water, garlic.

Clerics on the other hand get away with moral code of their deity, with thor or zeus it's propably bad temper and womenizer, with Hermes its addiction to knownledge or terrible nerdiness etc.

Actually, mythic greece is a nice world, I miss Xena. M&M could handle that world nicely.

Next question is, what about Rogue. What makes rogue special?

Perhaps just Drawbacks, lots of them, and complications so that with their increased feat pool and heropoints, they handle crisis with sheer luck.

The fine line between drawback and complications...

Armor use and weapon use limitations perhaps should be drawbacks because it's about training, and character concept.

But power loss from unability to cast spell should be complication. You get caught, and you need that hero point to escape.

Anyway, if mages have fades or charges with their pool, they just have to buy 2 or three magic powers to get close to D&D spell pool, so I would skip the math.
Thanks to Taliesin, I am starting to understand the system.

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Re: away from classes

Post by Graf » Mon May 14, 2007 7:42 pm

Atori wrote: For each magic feat, you need a mystical drawback of equal rank.
Mystical drawback is either weakness or vulnerability, perhaps even disability.
There are some issues with this:
1. It doesn't fit the sort of characters in DnD
2. It doesn't fit the kinds of characters people want to play
3. Every wizard would be similar to a Wu-jen from oDnD... i.e. they have a bunch of bizarre rules they follow: (can't eat anything red, sit facing east, cut their hair, etc. etc. etc.) It's not a bad concept, but it's sort of limiting.

Atori wrote: Clerics on the other hand get away with moral code of their deity, with thor or zeus it's propably bad temper and womenizer, with Hermes its addiction to knownledge or terrible nerdiness etc.
These kinds of "compulsions" are not good game balance mechanisms. This is one of the reasons why they were phased out of DnD third edition.
MnM is also -not- the sort of system you set this up effectively really.

The closest thing you could do would be to have some sort of modified complications. Something like
DM: Priest of Thor, you are out drinking at a tavern when someone insults your prowess. You've punched them out, the guards are now coming. You get a hero point. What do you do?

Giving people extra character powers for things like "you're a violent jerk" is really not a good game mechanism.

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Post by JoshuaDunlow » Tue May 15, 2007 11:16 am

Thus why i kept mostly to the core of the MnM system for simulate magic.

Arcane Magic for Wizards
Divine Magic for Priests
Infernal Magic for Demons
Nature Magic for Druids
etc..
etc..

The masterminds manual was a great inspiration for adding color to a power already there.

I kept drawbacks somewhat like those in DnD
Bound & Gagged, can't cast spells for wizards.
+
If they were armor they have to make Concentration checks to cast spells
Spell Checks: If a arcane wielder uses armor, when casting a spell must make a Concentration check. The weight of the armor determines the penalty Light armor subtracts -2 , Medium Armor subtracts -4, and Heavy Armor subtacts -6. The DC for this test is 10. (This is a 2 point drawback; Power Loss [Uncommon; Moderate Intensity])
Spell Casting Restrictions: A spell caster cannot cast spells, if his hands are bound or gagged. (this is a 3 point drawback; Power Loss [Common;Moderate Intensity])
To make up for the armor and weapons skills, i added feats to earn proficiency in different weapons and armors. Like in DND.

Clerics needed a holy symbol, and invocations to cast spells.
+ They could loose their spells, if they did not follow religious strictures.
Priestly Strictures: All magic, special abilities, or powers derived from the variable power are subject to power loss; If and only if a priest, or templar breaks any of his clerical strictures. These powers will not return, unless the templar/priest takes a quest to redeem him/herself to be worthy in the eyes of their god. [Uncommon Frequency; Moderate Intensity; 2pp]
Faith: A priest must be able to pray, or speak his words of faith. To call upon his powers. If he cannot speak the words of Invokation, the god cannot hear his plea. [Power loss; Uncommon Frequency, Minor Intensity; 1pp]

That and i like to keep things as simple as possible. The more complicated they become the less fun they are.

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