Fantasy MnM?

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Atori
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Re: away from classes

Postby Atori » Tue May 15, 2007 11:07 pm

Graf wrote:These kinds of "compulsions" are not good game balance mechanisms.

Giving people extra character powers for things like "you're a violent
jerk" is really not a good game mechanism.


I totally agree, that's why I wanted to divine magic user to have drawbacks like limited set of weapons, or cannot fight on holy days etc.

My idea was to allow mental drawbacks, because with some gods it's fitting.

Joshua, your division seems very good, thank you.
Thanks to Taliesin, I am starting to understand the system.

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Postby Atori » Tue May 15, 2007 11:13 pm

JoshuaDunlow wrote:
Arcane Magic for Wizards

Is this something new, I did not see it in UP book?
Spell Checks: If a arcane wielder uses armor, when casting a spell must make a Concentration check. The weight of the armor determines the penalty Light armor subtracts -2 , Medium Armor subtracts -4, and Heavy Armor subtacts -6. The DC for this test is 10. (This is a 2 point drawback; Power Loss [Uncommon; Moderate Intensity])
Spell Casting Restrictions: A spell caster cannot cast spells, if his hands are bound or gagged. (this is a 3 point drawback; Power Loss [Common;Moderate Intensity])


Priestly Strictures: All magic, special abilities, or powers derived from the variable power are subject to power loss; If and only if a priest, or templar breaks any of his clerical strictures. These powers will not return, unless the templar/priest takes a quest to redeem him/herself to be worthy in the eyes of their god. [Uncommon Frequency; Moderate Intensity; 2pp]
Faith: A priest must be able to pray, or speak his words of faith. To call upon his powers. If he cannot speak the words of Invokation, the god cannot hear his plea. [Power loss; Uncommon Frequency, Minor Intensity; 1pp]


Okay, I add that to my FantasyM&M page.



That and i like to keep things as simple as possible. The more complicated they become the less fun they are.


I cannot agree more.

I met one RPG designer once and he said that his first rpg was so complex it was totally unplayable. It's easy to make complex, but hard to make simple.

I iterate, write up rules, and then merge them, and cut out the weeds.
Thanks to Taliesin, I am starting to understand the system.

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Postby fireinthedust » Sun May 27, 2007 4:36 am

Okay, I've read most of what's been presented so far: here's my two cents.

I think what's needed for MnM is to not get as focused on particular builds like you guys are doing. I think the races are great (ie: mandatory ability score and sonsory packages).

classes: I wouldn't focus on them. I would recommend perhaps builds for specific organizations, like a group of knights or robin hood's merry men (forest bandit-rangers without animals), kinda like the archetypes in the 2nd ed MnM book.

what I would focus on:

sources. MnM is a superhero game, not a class-based treasure hunt like DnD. you get fantasy characters, but they're more like Xena: what was her class? hard to say and no good answer. MnM is more free-form in that respect, so I would recommend figuring out who the individual characters in the game are, and making up cool NPCs.

Sources:

eldritch: wizards, illusionists, eldritch knights, spell-thieves. Whatever MnM powers they take, this is where they get it from. Maybe even barbarians that get special abilities when they smash magic items or slay wizards? Complications/weaknesses/flaws: vulnerability to iron, need for verbal whatever, vulnerable to silver; device: need a spellbook, amulet, staff, sword or other magic item to use powers; or their sidekick (genie, dragon, etc.).
alternates include warlocks and assasin spells, blackguards (infernal source) and clerics/paladins (divine).

Divine: basically like eldritch, but flaws could be: 1) code of behaviour (lawful good for paladin healing and banishments (undead, demons, elementals)); also includes not using particular types of equipment. 2) Device (holy symbol for amazing saves vs magic, spell casting, etc.

Alternately: Thor and suchnot beings could wander the world for some reason, maybe as an avatar on a quest or something.

Training: this is your fighter, but also you Monk, weaponmaster, "the greatest swordsman who ever lived". As well it includes Barbarians, rangers, robin hood, Rogues, whoever.

Race: this is a big one. This is where giants and firbolgs can have Super Strength; Fey can have Super Speed; Dwarves get their mandatory package of sense and immovable; elves have immunity (aging). Remember, MnM is getting away from classes, so there's no ood reason for disallowing a minotaur sorcerer in the party. Liches get their immunities and touch attack, medusae get transmute (flesh to stone! oooo), whatever.

Artifice: this replaces super-tech, and can be golem armor. Heck, it includes constructs, whatever.

alignment: not a source, but a factor in a moorcock setting; as it's really heroes vs. villains anyway, you may want to replace it with factions (one of four elements, sauron vs. goodly races, membership in various guilds, etc.). Basically PCs pick one for free, and effects harm or help them (magic swords react to them in a particular way, etc.).


Next I'd say just start making specific peices of equipment, like daggers, standard platemail, wagons, etc. Potions of healing and throwaway items also fall into this category.

treasure: ye standard box o' gold gives them a +x bonus to wealth. Gems and artwork should do the same.

Locations: why go simple? make some weird places, the PCs are fantasy supers.

Then make some "legendary magical items": Devices that they can use for an adventure or two (the sword that can slay the dragon, then melts)
Then standard monsters: pegasus, orc thugs, golems, minions (undead hordes, etc.).
Then make up your own unique builds for classic NPCs: azalin the lich, soth the deathknight, elminster, whoever.

Don't streamline PCs or have expectations, just make a tool kit. Go one peice of equipment at a time, one foot in front of the other.so far it sounds like you're making too much work for yourself and complicating the already-in-place system.

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Postby JoshuaDunlow » Sun May 27, 2007 11:13 am

fireinthedust wrote:Okay, I've read most of what's been presented so far: here's my two cents.

I think what's needed for MnM is to not get as focused on particular builds like you guys are doing. I think the races are great (ie: mandatory ability score and sonsory packages).


I wouldn't get as focused on racial packages either, as long as it was a primarily one race type of system. Like a medieval game where all you played were humans.

classes: I wouldn't focus on them. I would recommend perhaps builds for specific organizations, like a group of knights or robin hood's merry men (forest bandit-rangers without animals), kinda like the archetypes in the 2nd ed MnM book.

what I would focus on:

sources. MnM is a superhero game, not a class-based treasure hunt like DnD. you get fantasy characters, but they're more like Xena: what was her class? hard to say and no good answer. MnM is more free-form in that respect, so I would recommend figuring out who the individual characters in the game are, and making up cool NPCs.


And i agree, less focus on classes and allow players to build off of a character concept with freedom. Everyone is going to be different this way.

Sources:
eldritch: wizards, illusionists, eldritch knights, spell-thieves. Whatever MnM powers they take, this is where they get it from. Maybe even barbarians that get special abilities when they smash magic items or slay wizards? Complications/weaknesses/flaws: vulnerability to iron, need for verbal whatever, vulnerable to silver; device: need a spellbook, amulet, staff, sword or other magic item to use powers; or their sidekick (genie, dragon, etc.).
alternates include warlocks and assasin spells, blackguards (infernal source) and clerics/paladins (divine).

Divine: basically like eldritch, but flaws could be: 1) code of behaviour (lawful good for paladin healing and banishments (undead, demons, elementals)); also includes not using particular types of equipment. 2) Device (holy symbol for amazing saves vs magic, spell casting, etc.

Alternately: Thor and suchnot beings could wander the world for some reason, maybe as an avatar on a quest or something.

Training: this is your fighter, but also you Monk, weaponmaster, "the greatest swordsman who ever lived". As well it includes Barbarians, rangers, robin hood, Rogues, whoever.

Race: this is a big one. This is where giants and firbolgs can have Super Strength; Fey can have Super Speed; Dwarves get their mandatory package of sense and immovable; elves have immunity (aging). Remember, MnM is getting away from classes, so there's no ood reason for disallowing a minotaur sorcerer in the party. Liches get their immunities and touch attack, medusae get transmute (flesh to stone! oooo), whatever.

Artifice: this replaces super-tech, and can be golem armor. Heck, it includes constructs, whatever.


Nothing i haven't already covered in my own write ups.

alignment: not a source, but a factor in a moorcock setting; as it's really heroes vs. villains anyway, you may want to replace it with factions (one of four elements, sauron vs. goodly races, membership in various guilds, etc.). Basically PCs pick one for free, and effects harm or help them (magic swords react to them in a particular way, etc.).

Alignments of some type should be followed but only a loose way; Such as the old warhammer method. Lawful (those who uphold the letter of the law), Good (those who always do the right thing), Nuetral (Most people), Evil (those who promote deviant behaviour), Chaotic (and those who promote wanton destruction, and chaos)

Next I'd say just start making specific peices of equipment, like daggers, standard platemail, wagons, etc. Potions of healing and throwaway items also fall into this category.

treasure: ye standard box o' gold gives them a +x bonus to wealth. Gems and artwork should do the same.

Locations: why go simple? make some weird places, the PCs are fantasy supers.

Then make some "legendary magical items": Devices that they can use for an adventure or two (the sword that can slay the dragon, then melts)
Then standard monsters: pegasus, orc thugs, golems, minions (undead hordes, etc.).
Then make up your own unique builds for classic NPCs: azalin the lich, soth the deathknight, elminster, whoever.

Don't streamline PCs or have expectations, just make a tool kit. Go one peice of equipment at a time, one foot in front of the other.so far it sounds like you're making too much work for yourself and complicating the already-in-place system.


One again this is all pretty much i think to most of us, pretty obvious. Hell i have just considered making a fantasy world, but giving the players freedom in making what ever characters and races they want. And then fashioning the world around them :D
But i am all for creating a simple system, i hate complicated systems. But with just a little ground work, MnM is easily adapted into fantasy. Which is why MnM has become my sole-rpg now. Even if i dont have a gaming group, i would still like to find a group of people willing to get together online. In IRC format, and play.
Also my thread linked from my signature, i have started doing some medieval character write ups. I hope to have a PL 4 character for every class in the DnD system.


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