A Community Standard -- PLEASE READ!!!

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BeZurKur
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Postby BeZurKur » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:00 pm

The Great Pumpkin wrote:Actually the Nocturnals Midnight Companion uses 1:2, which is partly why the missus started that one thread about skill ratios in the Rules forum the other day. I honestly wish they hadn't done that, as now whenever I see a new M&M book I'll be thinking "can I use this in my game without having to rebuild the characters?"


Nocturnals is one of the few MnM sourcebooks I don't have. :oops:
Thanks for pointing that out.

BTW: Cool avatar!

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Postby Dungeon Keeper » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:04 pm

BeZurKur wrote:BTW: Cool avatar!

Thanks! It's from Jim Balent's "Tarot: Witch of the Black Rose" comic. That picture used to be taller until I realized my posts were much shorter than the avatar was, so I cropped it. :)

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Postby Old Sparky » Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:33 pm

Looks like Lord Pumpkin from the old Malibu Comics line...

I'm gonna have to check out Tarot, though. That looks most excellent!

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Postby Thanos the Mad Titan » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:29 am

I second the Super-Skill (Extra: All [fill in] Skills) as the viable option for skill heavy characters.
"From knowledge springs Power, just as weakness stems from Ignorance."

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Postby BeZurKur » Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:26 am

Yeah, the beauty of the Super Skill: Extra [stat] is that even with flaws or as an extra, it still costs 1 point to increase a single skill by 1 -- even though you are affecting multiple skills. Under the 3:1 or 2:1, I've seen non-heavy skill users abuse the system by getting virtually unbeatable results by just spending 5 points and getting +15 to an intimidate or taunt skill!

I'm about to edit the first post of this thread to include the current community standards so it is in one accessible place. Please check it to confirm whether it is up to everyone's approval. Currently there is a discussion at the Community Daredevil regarding Strike, that I hope continues here.

I think DD is pretty much done. Any other Community characters someone wants to do?

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Postby d4 » Sat Jul 10, 2004 11:34 am

Thanos the Mad Titan wrote:I second the Super-Skill (Extra: All [fill in] Skills) as the viable option for skill heavy characters.

it costs exactly the same as Super-Stat (Flaw: only skill checks), so it's hardly some great new innovation over what we already had... :roll:

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Postby Dungeon Keeper » Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:21 pm

d4 wrote:it costs exactly the same as Super-Stat (Flaw: only skill checks), so it's hardly some great new innovation over what we already had... :roll:

Perhaps, but personally I think it comes across less kludgy that way.

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Postby BeZurKur » Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:42 pm

d4 wrote:it costs exactly the same as Super-Stat (Flaw: only skill checks), so it's hardly some great new innovation over what we already had... :roll:


1) Check the previous page of this very same thread. Here, no need:

4) As a fix to #2 above, BlackWym Games' Algernon Files used an extra on Super Skill to affect all same stat based skills. For example: Super Skill -- extra All Dex Skills (2pp.) Brilliant! This is similar to Kenson's use of Super-Strength on Foreshadow with the flaw, only for skills. However, this method is neater and more consistent with other power costs, such as Super Intelligence and Super Charisma, powers that only increase skill rolls.


2) Please check my math.

Super-Strength: 4 points per rank, Flaw: Only skill checks
Final cost: 3pp / rank

Super Skill: 1 point per rank, Extra: All strength skills
Final cost: 2pp / rank

There is no reason why the strength skills should be more expensive. IMO, the Wisdom and Charisma skills are more useful, but not enough to warrant an increased cost. See the quote above why this is neater.

Moral: Sarcasm works better when you are well-informed. :roll:

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Postby Circeus » Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:52 pm

That's because the 3 base effects are:
-Double lifting weight for each level
-Add to unarmed damage
-Add to St skill checks

So the correct "only to skills" flaw is "No lifting increas, no damage bonus", which makes it correctly a 2pp/rank power.

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Postby BeZurKur » Sat Jul 10, 2004 2:30 pm

Circeus wrote:So the correct "only to skills" flaw is "No lifting increas, no damage bonus", which makes it correctly a 2pp/rank power.


Thanks for explaining that... really! :)

Super Skill is still much neater, IMO. But still, I am curious: what about Dex then? If we come up with base effects, I count four.

skills
initiative
defense
reflex saves

Edit: I just looked at Foreshadow, and I think Kenson only awarded it -1 flaw.

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Postby Circeus » Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:31 pm

I think initiative is considered too "secondary" for an effect of it's own (Similarly, Super-Speed doesn't account correctly until you omit Initiative roll).

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Postby therealtony » Sat Jul 10, 2004 7:40 pm

Hey has anybody check out www.marvel.com lately?

They have gussied up the web page a bit..

The main page of interest for our little topic is

http://www.marvel.com/universe/index.htm

The power ranking of 1-7 they have been using is not very granular. From a writers perspective this might be a good thing for the creations of stories..but for a gamer who wants to convert his favorite Marvel characters into an (insert favorite superhero rpg) write-up will get a little bit frustrated with this ranking system.

For one thing The fighting ranking is based on how many martial arts a character knows and not how well they can actually fight. So Nick Fury has a higher fighting rank than Shang-Chi..But Shang-Chi is supposed to be an I quote from the marvel site "The Worlds Greatest Martial Artist".

The breakdown of agility is equally wonky..

what do you folks think?

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Postby Dungeon Keeper » Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:26 am

therealtony wrote:The power ranking of 1-7 they have been using is not very granular.

1-7?

I guess that's great news if you're running Fudge but otherwise you'd think they'd at least use something closer to the Marvel Universe RPG.

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Postby BeZurKur » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:10 am

Circeus wrote:I think initiative is considered too "secondary" for an effect of it's own (Similarly, Super-Speed doesn't account correctly until you omit Initiative roll).


Initiative is too secondary, but lifting multiple isn't? I'm really liking the Super Skill option more and more!

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Postby BeZurKur » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:19 am

therealtony wrote:For one thing The fighting ranking is based on how many martial arts a character knows and not how well they can actually fight. So Nick Fury has a higher fighting rank than Shang-Chi..But Shang-Chi is supposed to be an I quote from the marvel site "The Worlds Greatest Martial Artist".


I agree: it's wonky. However, that doesn't mean we can't use it. I compared Daredevil and Electra's fighting skill, and sure enough, she has a six compared to DD's 5. I would have ranked them the same, but using the Marvel ranking method, we know she knows more forms of combat. I figure I can translate this to her feats extending to the sais. This is just an idea right now, but a source is a source and their's is free!

BTW: Thanks for pointing out the site. I haven't been there in years.


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