Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

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Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby saint_matthew » Fri May 02, 2014 7:49 am

Stigger wrote: I'd be more surprised if there wasn't a somewhat psychotic member of any given national team who also dabbled in a more covert world when required. Kinda like the Comedian from Watchmen.


That could have worked had it not been in the public eye, but even the Comedian only killed when had had a reason too. If it had been that darker version of the Thunderbolts under the control of Norman Osborne, were everyone thought that Normie was a good guy & not a loony toon, an all the murder was kept under wraps, it could have worked too (if they'd been a secondary not important team). :D

It wouldn't be so bad had it been the savage wolverine of the 90's thing when it was "holding back a brutal killing instinct, heart of gold" style character, because such a character can be compelling, interesting & just the right sort of moral ambiguity.

Even the "willing to kill" character can be interesting in the right game, but once its graduated to "kills as a matter of course" & that's turned into a complication (which means its now a mechanical system), I think one has crossed the line for any non wet-works game, especially in a straight up silver age campaign setting. It has to fit the campaign setting & a character who murders people because "why not" just doesn't seem to fit the intended setting tone.

Of all the things I mentioned in my mini review, I honestly thought this would be the last thing people would think was an important talking point worth discussing. I was sure people were going to take umbrage with my point about the laziness of the costume designs. :lol:
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Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Kyle » Fri May 02, 2014 6:23 pm

Well, it's not the best piece of art. You're right that the costuming for Team Canada is fairly generic. Big Thunder and Miss Canada look like they're wearing Alpha Flight's laundry day uniforms, the Opportunist has a fairly basic speedster -- which isn't great but is probably the best of the lot -- and Labrador Rock appears to be more of a mono-chromatic battlesuit than a stone construct. Luna doesn't match the character description, or stand-out much at all.

You're getting push-back regarding your position on Luna, because your interpretation of the character doesn't really seem to match what's on the page. She's described as being a casual killer -- which isn't very superheroic -- but that doesn't mean she's wantonly murdering baddies en masse. You've brought up the Dark Avengers and Thunderbolts teams led by Norman Osborne, and even though most of those characters were monsters, they knew enough to reign it in when the public was around.

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Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby saint_matthew » Fri May 02, 2014 6:58 pm

Kyle wrote:Well, it's not the best piece of art. You're right that the costuming for Team Canada is fairly generic. Big Thunder and Miss Canada look like they're wearing Alpha Flight's laundry day uniforms, the Opportunist has a fairly basic speedster -- which isn't great but is probably the best of the lot -- and Labrador Rock appears to be more of a mono-chromatic battlesuit than a stone construct. Luna doesn't match the character description, or stand-out much at all.


Its beautifully rendered, with great colour, but its just not compelling as a group of superhero costumes. An yeah it comes off as not matching the character descriptions & that really REALLY annoys me in a paid for product.

Kyle wrote:You're getting push-back regarding your position on Luna, because your interpretation of the character doesn't really seem to match what's on the page. She's described as being a casual killer -- which isn't very superheroic -- but that doesn't mean she's wantonly murdering baddies en masse. You've brought up the Dark Avengers and Thunderbolts teams led by Norman Osborne, and even though most of those characters were monsters, they knew enough to reign it in when the public was around.


Except her exact complication reads

Luna kills opponents as a matter of course and rarely considers the consequences.


How is that NOT exactly how I presented the situation. Add in to that, that is also a complication means that whenever she doesn't kill its going to cost the player a hero point & whenever she does kill, her player is going to receive a hero point: That's how complications work unless something has changed, or if the complication was poorly written & that's not its intended goal.

So you've got a tonally out of place character, with a mechanical complication that essentially makes her a sociopathic spree killer & rewards her player for brutal murder.

Am I reading this wrong, or is that what is present in the material.... Because I'd be totally happy for you or someone else to come along & tell me that I'm wrong & that's not really what appears in the source material. At this point nothing could make me happier.
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Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Kyle » Fri May 02, 2014 7:51 pm

saint_matthew wrote:Add in to that, that is also a complication means that whenever she doesn't kill its going to cost the player a hero point & whenever she does kill, her player is going to receive a hero point: That's how complications work unless something has changed, or if the complication was poorly written & that's not its intended goal.

While I can't comment on the intent of Mr. Bennie in writing the complication, I'm pretty sure that it doesn't cost characters Hero Points when they opt to ignore a Complication. Also, characters don't gain Hero Points simply for having a Complication; there needs to be negative consequences to their actions. You can't have a character with a fear of water as a Complication go to a public swimming pool and have a screaming fit to stockpile a bunch of Hero Points for later.

Luna might gain Hero Points for killing, but only if there's appropriately severe penalty.

Also, two of her other Complications are a desire for acceptance, and a strict code of honour, both of which should prevent her from murdering dudes in droves.
Last edited by Kyle on Fri May 02, 2014 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby saint_matthew » Fri May 02, 2014 8:21 pm

Edit: it doesn't matter, I am not a fan. I found it off putting, out of character for the intended tonal setting & flies in the face of the very idea of a public superhero team.... Its one of the elements I found to be very slap dash in its execution. The characters had some potential, but a lot of that potential was drained away by trying to play against the cliché, which made it just as clichéd. All in all a little disappointed on the "characters" part of the episode, across the board (art, narrative, less so with the stats which were decent enough).

An with that all i'll say is: Hey look at that DC is putting out a Teen titans Earth One book later this year.... And a wonder women one too.
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Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Stigger » Sat May 03, 2014 7:14 am

I enjoy voting myself, it gives me the chance to vote no every time they ask for more money... :D


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