Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

This is the catch-all forum, for Mutants & Masterminds threads that you're not quite sure where to put.
User avatar
JonL
M&M Developer
M&M Developer
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:06 pm
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby JonL » Wed Apr 30, 2014 2:51 pm

Best regards,

Jon Leitheusser
M&M Line Developer
DC Adventures Line Developer
That's all I got.

User avatar
Kyle
Sidekick
Sidekick
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:38 pm
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Kyle » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:14 pm

Been looking forward to this for a while and I was not disappointed. There's plenty here that I can incorporate into my future games.

I especially enjoyed the subverting of common Canadian stereotypes with Team Canada.

User avatar
JonL
M&M Developer
M&M Developer
Posts: 965
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:06 pm
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby JonL » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:20 pm

Kyle wrote:Been looking forward to this for a while and I was not disappointed. There's plenty here that I can incorporate into my future games.

I especially enjoyed the subverting of common Canadian stereotypes with Team Canada.


Glad you liked that, Kyle! I thinks Scott did a great job on this and it's nice to hear another Canadian's opinion! (Er, I'm not Canadian, but Scott is.)
Best regards,

Jon Leitheusser
M&M Line Developer
DC Adventures Line Developer
That's all I got.

User avatar
Mr Mole
Firebrand
Firebrand
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 9:33 am
Location: Washington (the state, not the district)

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Mr Mole » Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:55 pm

Loved Scott Bennie's work for years (my first real exposure to his work was around Champions 4th Ed). As he wrote Champions of the North (Hero 5th Ed version) and he's written for Green Ronin before and he's Canadian and he's brilliant at what he does, if anything, he's overqualified for this particular volume of the Atlas of Earth-Prime. Excellent work all around. :mrgreen:

NOTE: Sorry, I'm not Canadian... But i live just a couple hours drive from the border and I dated a Canadian for awhile years ago... And after spending quite a bit of time interacting with said ex-girlfriend and her family, I do tend to (unintentionally) slip into a subtle, Canadian accent, which Canadian women seem to find captivating... Go figure... :roll:

User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby saint_matthew » Thu May 01, 2014 6:58 am

Okay since its out I suppose i'll give a mini review, so possible spoilers ahead, but i'll try to keep them to a minimum


So lets start out with some positive points & things done well. There is some interesting concepts & interesting hooks in here including The Sanctum, the reference to Centuria (I see what you did there), the city of the Dominion & The Golden Sojourner.... Generally some good content.

Unfortunately this leads to my first major issue of 2 issues: The padding. This entry feels very padded, especially with its inclusion of go no where sidebars & mostly useless discussions of Inuit honorifics nomenclature issues. Don't get me wrong, that will totally be of interest to me when Green Ronin pays Scott Bennie to write the M&M equivalent of Champions of the North, but in a limited space production that also happens to be a superhero RPG mini setting, I would rather get more about the actual stuff relating to superheroes. Same goes for a sidebar that appears to exist only to tell me how lame Mad Maple is, but then doesn't include stats for the mad maple.

This word count & page space could have gone to giving the Team Canada characters just a smidge more personality outside of wide generalised characterisations. Maybe more on there Headquarters/Vehicle or the relationship with the setting.

On to my second issue: Just to preface this next statement, in 2007 the Green Ronin product "Ultimate Power," was not only nominated but also won the Best Interior artwork award from the Ennie awards. So in comparison this artwork is not up to scratch: Its not that the technical aspect isn't up to scratch, because it is beautifully rendered. The issue is that its beautifully rendered by not at all compelling: This is no more evident that the Team Canada image.

There are two types of super-costumes in superhero RPG art work... The first is the lovingly hand designed costume, that shows the individuality of each character, usually referencing designs that have come before. These costumes have every line lovingly placed, each line & detail serving a purpose as laid out by the costume designer(see Emerald City source books version of Killshot for an example).

The other kind is the 2 colour unitard, cuffs & collars costume. This costume is the quick & easy short hand statement that announces "I am a Generic Superhero." Occasionally you'll see a Gernica costume with extra lines, but the lines are ill defined & don't see to serve any purpose except to make it look like the costume has more going on, but is obscured.

Unfortunately Team Canada is a technically perfect beautifully rendered group of Generic costumes. I saw the group shot & I literally skipped there entire entry & went to the next section. Then when I returned to read the Team Canada section all I could think was "these guys have potential, why would you curse them with such generic looking costumes."

Heck one of the characters is meant to be stony & ended up looking like armour made of pig iron.... An Lunas image is not what I thought of when I read her description.... I would have gone with a design more reminiscent of a particular x-men character with similar powers.

GENERAL OBSERVATIONS
Okay, so moving on to general observations.... Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to have a sociopathic killer on a public super hero team, knowingly funded by the government, functioning on a national scale in full view of the public... I'm thinking people should have a problem with that.... Heck forget the general public for a second, the GOVERNMENT & its numerous branches of law enforcement should have a problem with that.

I'm increasingly thinking maybe this product line is one that cannot be done adequately in a 12 page weekly format.... There's just to much for such a short page count.
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov

Monolith
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 2087
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:07 pm

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Monolith » Thu May 01, 2014 7:14 am

saint_matthew wrote:GENERAL OBSERVATIONS
Okay, so moving on to general observations.... Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to have a sociopathic killer on a public super hero team, knowingly funded by the government, functioning on a national scale in full view of the public... I'm thinking people should have a problem with that.... Heck forget the general public for a second, the GOVERNMENT & its numerous branches of law enforcement should have a problem with that.

I don't have the pdf to know the specifics but isn't Wolverine on basically every team in Marvel, including the Avengers, at different points in history? Heck, a huge percentage of the early Avengers members were ex-criminals. I really see this as a classic comic book homage.

User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby saint_matthew » Thu May 01, 2014 7:22 pm

Monolith wrote:I don't have the pdf to know the specifics but isn't Wolverine on basically every team in Marvel, including the Avengers, at different points in history? Heck, a huge percentage of the early Avengers members were ex-criminals. I really see this as a classic comic book homage.


You'll see it when you read it: There's a pretty big difference between "will kill when absolutely necessary for the greater good" & "kills opponents as a matter of course and rarely considers the consequences."
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov

Monolith
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 2087
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:07 pm

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Monolith » Thu May 01, 2014 8:22 pm

saint_matthew wrote:
Monolith wrote:I don't have the pdf to know the specifics but isn't Wolverine on basically every team in Marvel, including the Avengers, at different points in history? Heck, a huge percentage of the early Avengers members were ex-criminals. I really see this as a classic comic book homage.


You'll see it when you read it: There's a pretty big difference between "will kill when absolutely necessary for the greater good" & "kills opponents as a matter of course and rarely considers the consequences."

You ever read Byrne's description of Wolverine nature?

The definitive Wolverine sequence is he's sitting at the breakfast table, eating a bowl of cereal, and Kitty comes in and says, "Hi!" in exactly the wrong tone of voice, and Cyclops comes in, and there's Wolverine eating his breakfast cereal, and Kitty lying on the floor disembowelled," Byrne told Back Issue #4.

User avatar
Kyle
Sidekick
Sidekick
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:38 pm
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Kyle » Thu May 01, 2014 9:18 pm

saint_matthew wrote:GENERAL OBSERVATIONS
Okay, so moving on to general observations.... Correct me if I'm wrong, but you appear to have a sociopathic killer on a public super hero team, knowingly funded by the government, functioning on a national scale in full view of the public... I'm thinking people should have a problem with that.... Heck forget the general public for a second, the GOVERNMENT & its numerous branches of law enforcement should have a problem with that.

Did you notice the bits where the government department handling that superhero team is in league with an underground organization run by a demon trying to create his own superhero army, or that the team is not viewed favourably by most Canadians or the other Canadian superheroes?

User avatar
Mr Mole
Firebrand
Firebrand
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 9:33 am
Location: Washington (the state, not the district)

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Mr Mole » Thu May 01, 2014 11:05 pm

Monolith & Kyle... +1 to each of you... Those were the exact points that came to my mind, too... But I figured this was probably going to be one of those "Matthew already has his mind made up" situations and I didn't wanna add fuel to the fire... :roll:

User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby saint_matthew » Thu May 01, 2014 11:09 pm

Kyle wrote:Did you notice the bits where the government department handling that superhero team is in league with an underground organization run by a demon trying to create his own superhero army, or that the team is not viewed favourably by most Canadians or the other Canadian superheroes?


Doesn't matter, in fact that makes it worse. Firstly government bodies have oversight committees: If you have a public super team, sponsored by the government in a westernised first world with strong ties to the U.N, that just wouldn't fly.... Secondly that takes me out of it further since any organisation doing nefarious things doesn't want an internal investigation taking place due to having a sociopathic team member on there public team.

After all the rest of the team may be jerks, but they are still superheroes: In conic book terms it'd be like having NU52 Shazam on the same team as Dark Avengers Hawkeye (Bullseye in disguise), except without the team of government handlers.... Doesn't matter how much a jerk Nu-Zam is he still knows that he shouldn't be working with an unrepentant sociopathic serial killer & shouldn't be allowing him to murder people every time he or she fights someone.

Sure you can get away with that on a under cover wet works team like the suicide squad, but not on a public high profile, national superhero team... Not in the era of camera-phones & the 24 hour news cycle.

EDIT: You could also get away with this in say the Ultimates, but again that says more about the universe that they are presenting than the characters. The ultimates universe is one where the rise of the superheroes is new, brutal & planet threating. Same with the Authority Universe, but in there case they were only heroes in comparison to everyone else, who were all just nihilistic genocidal sociopaths with the power to extinguish an entire universe by sneezing. If you were to put the Avengers of Justice League into the Authority universe, would the Authority still be considered the good guys?

Earth Prime has always been sold on the idea of mid to late silver age, with a long history of super heroics. Completely different paradigms.
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov

User avatar
Kyle
Sidekick
Sidekick
Posts: 358
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:38 pm
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Kyle » Fri May 02, 2014 12:57 am

saint_matthew wrote:Doesn't matter, in fact that makes it worse. Firstly government bodies have oversight committees: If you have a public super team, sponsored by the government in a westernised first world with strong ties to the U.N, that just wouldn't fly.... Secondly that takes me out of it further since any organisation doing nefarious things doesn't want an internal investigation taking place due to having a sociopathic team member on there public team.

I totally get that. Whenever I decide to add a French Canadian former mutant gang leader raised by a werewolf circus to my game, I always make certain that the Government bureaucracy overseeing the superhero team they're on is as authentic as possible, because I wouldn't want my players to have to suspend their disbelief.

Team Canada isn't supposed to be the good guys. Not really. They're a bunch of thugs, intended to run contrary to the common stereotype that Canadians are all nice and polite. And even though Luna is described as being a casual killer, presumably she's not murdering every goon or villain they encounter.

If it makes you feel better about what a bunch of jack-holes Team Canada is, Matthew, the real world the city they're based out of, Toronto, looks to have a fairly decent chance of re-electing crack-smoking, alcoholic, racist, homophobic national disgrace, Rob Ford, to the office of Mayor.

User avatar
saint_matthew
Overlord
Overlord
Posts: 4381
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Perth, AUSTRALIA

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby saint_matthew » Fri May 02, 2014 1:04 am

Kyle wrote:I totally get that. Whenever I decide to add a French Canadian former mutant gang leader raised by a werewolf circus to my game, I always make certain that the Government bureaucracy overseeing the superhero team they're on is as authentic as possible, because I wouldn't want my players to have to suspend their disbelief.


Kyle there is suspending disbelief & there is suspending common-sense in the face of the rest of the campaign setting.
“Anti-Intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge’.”
-Isaac Asimov

Stigger
Cohort
Cohort
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:03 am

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Stigger » Fri May 02, 2014 6:25 am

Well, we do have to suspend disbelief in real life every time there's an election, to a certain extent anyway... on the whole though, I'd be more surprised if there wasn't a somewhat psychotic member of any given national team who also dabbled in a more covert world when required. Kinda like the Comedian from Watchmen.

User avatar
Mr Mole
Firebrand
Firebrand
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 9:33 am
Location: Washington (the state, not the district)

Re: Atlas of Earth-Prime: Canada

Postby Mr Mole » Fri May 02, 2014 7:26 am

Stigger wrote:Well, we do have to suspend disbelief in real life every time there's an election, to a certain extent anyway...

...Which is just one of the many reasons I stopped voting several years ago... :roll:

It's like when I was a little kid and the dentist would ask "what flavor fluoride would you like?" and I'd panic, trying to avoid the one I'd chosen the time before, 'cause it was horrible... Until I figured out, after being fooled a couple times, that there weren't really different flavors... The dentist was just a sadistic jerk who liked messing with kids' minds... Pretty much the same thing with elections... :|

In my experience, voting in public elections is just about as useful as arguing on the internet. :mrgreen:


Return to “General M&M”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests