Elongation Grab check bonus question

This is the catch-all forum, for Mutants & Masterminds threads that you're not quite sure where to put.
User avatar
Aerlock
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:03 pm

Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Aerlock » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:30 am

I apologize if this has already been answered and my search-fu was too weak to find it.

Elongation grants a bonus on Grab checks equal to its rank. Is that on both the Attack roll and the DC or just one of them? I thought it was just the DC but the updates to the HeroLab file to actually add the Elongation into Grabs has it adding to both. I wanna report that as a bug if it is and clear up my misconception if it's not.

- Aerlock
awww...I don't have a signature :(
But I do have character(s)!

Shock
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 12051
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Shock » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:36 am

I'm pretty sure it's just on the DC. At least that's always the way I've played it

Monolith
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 2087
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:07 pm

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Monolith » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:40 am

It's specifically for the grab check, not the attack check.

User avatar
Hellhound
Bystander
Bystander
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:11 pm
Location: México

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Hellhound » Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:58 am

It is in the DC
The treachery of demons is nothing compared to the betrayal of an angel.

User avatar
Aerlock
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:03 pm

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Aerlock » Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:38 am

So I submitted a bug report to Lone Wolf and got the response below. They're saying GR told them it applies to both if I'm reading their response correctly. Does that seem reasonable or am I reading it wrong?

Lone Wolf Development Support <support@wolflair.com>
Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 6:17 PM
We have confirmed with Green Ronin that this is supposed to be the case. Hope this helps!
--
Hollis McCray
Lone Wolf Development Support - support@wolflair.com
http://www.wolflair.com

Tip: Is Hero Lab / Army Builder regularly going into demo mode? Make sure each of your computers is using a *different* license number. Each computer needs its own license number to run properly - you can activate your free secondary license from the License menu, then use your new license number on your second computer to get up and running.


-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 19:19:20 +0000
To: "support@wolflair.com" <support@wolflair.com>
Subject: Mutants & Masterminds bug report: 3e Elongation incorrectly adds to the attack check

>The recent fix to the Elongation power in 3e seems to have introduced
>another bug. The Elongation power now adds to the attack check and the
>DC of the Grab when it should only be adding to the DC.
awww...I don't have a signature :(
But I do have character(s)!

User avatar
Aerlock
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:03 pm

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Aerlock » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:41 am

Since no one is arguing with this does that mean that Elongation is supposed to add to both the Attack and the DC of a Grab? I'll have to re-build a couple characters then I think.

- Aerlock
awww...I don't have a signature :(
But I do have character(s)!

Shock
Cosmic Entity
Cosmic Entity
Posts: 12051
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Shock » Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:57 am

It's hard to argue when Green Ronin says it is so. Though I think it's a bit much to add to both.

Monolith
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 2087
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:07 pm

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Monolith » Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:17 am

Shock wrote:It's hard to argue when Green Ronin says it is so. Though I think it's a bit much to add to both.

Not to mention it makes pl all wonky because it's still limited by pl. So if it's an attack check bonus too it means your character could be severely under pl when not doing elongated grabs.

I have a feeling this is one of those answers that wasn't thought about too much; and who knows who even answered the question.

User avatar
JDRook
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 1957
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:44 pm

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby JDRook » Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:42 pm

That doesn't really fit how the rule is written, although there is room for different interpretations. Most attacks require an Attack Check and an Effect Check; Elongation specifically states it grants bonus to the "grab check" and I would read Grab Check as the Effect and therefore the DC of the attack, meaning that Elongation would make Grabs more effective but not more accurate.

There are exactly 5 instances in the Deluxe Handbook of the phrase "grab check": 2 refer to Fast Grab allowing a free action Grab Check, 1 for Elongation, one for the Grab-based Flaw, and one in one of the adventures. None of these seem to suggest that Grab Check is an Attack Check as well as an Effect Check.

I officially disagree with that letter and the Hero Lab implementation it supports.
Sorry, I can't hear your argument for realism over the sound of my eye beams. :P

My original characters thread (2e)
My League of Legends conversion thread (3e)
My Rules Musings in 3e

User avatar
Aerlock
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 517
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:03 pm

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Aerlock » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:01 pm

I tried asking who it was that gave the answer but all they said was "the developers". I suppose I could try to press them on the issue but I figured that since some of the developer folks are on here this might get clarification without having to go through wolf lair. So if anyone that reads this has an in with the GR folks, do you think you could pass it up the chain?

- Aerlock

Edit: FYI I disagree with this ruling as well which is why I'm still poking at getting an answer.
awww...I don't have a signature :(
But I do have character(s)!

Monolith
Superhero
Superhero
Posts: 2087
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:07 pm

Re: Elongation Grab check bonus question

Postby Monolith » Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:28 pm

Aerlock wrote:I tried asking who it was that gave the answer but all they said was "the developers". I suppose I could try to press them on the issue but I figured that since some of the developer folks are on here this might get clarification without having to go through wolf lair. So if anyone that reads this has an in with the GR folks, do you think you could pass it up the chain?

- Aerlock

Edit: FYI I disagree with this ruling as well which is why I'm still poking at getting an answer.

Since no one from Green Ronin has answered game questions on the forum in years just make a gm's decision and decide for yourself. I vote not for both attack checks and grab resistance checks.


Return to “General M&M”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests