Elongation Grab check bonus question

[Aerlock]

I apologize if this has already been answered and my search-fu was too weak to find it.

Elongation grants a bonus on Grab checks equal to its rank. Is that on both the Attack roll and the DC or just one of them? I thought it was just the DC but the updates to the HeroLab file to actually add the Elongation into Grabs has it adding to both. I wanna report that as a bug if it is and clear up my misconception if it's not.

- Aerlock

[Shock]

I'm pretty sure it's just on the DC. At least that's always the way I've played it

[Monolith]

It's specifically for the grab check, not the attack check.

[Hellhound]

It is in the DC

[Aerlock]

So I submitted a bug report to Lone Wolf and got the response below. They're saying GR told them it applies to both if I'm reading their response correctly. Does that seem reasonable or am I reading it wrong?

Lone Wolf Development Support <support@wolflair.com>
Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 6:17 PM
We have confirmed with Green Ronin that this is supposed to be the case. Hope this helps!
--
Hollis McCray
Lone Wolf Development Support - support@wolflair.com
http://www.wolflair.com

Tip: Is Hero Lab / Army Builder regularly going into demo mode? Make sure each of your computers is using a *different* license number. Each computer needs its own license number to run properly - you can activate your free secondary license from the License menu, then use your new license number on your second computer to get up and running.


-----Original Message-----
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 19:19:20 +0000
To: "support@wolflair.com" <support@wolflair.com>
Subject: Mutants & Masterminds bug report: 3e Elongation incorrectly adds to the attack check

>The recent fix to the Elongation power in 3e seems to have introduced
>another bug. The Elongation power now adds to the attack check and the
>DC of the Grab when it should only be adding to the DC.

[Aerlock]

Since no one is arguing with this does that mean that Elongation is supposed to add to both the Attack and the DC of a Grab? I'll have to re-build a couple characters then I think.

- Aerlock

[Shock]

It's hard to argue when Green Ronin says it is so. Though I think it's a bit much to add to both.

[Monolith]

It's hard to argue when Green Ronin says it is so. Though I think it's a bit much to add to both.

Not to mention it makes pl all wonky because it's still limited by pl. So if it's an attack check bonus too it means your character could be severely under pl when not doing elongated grabs.

I have a feeling this is one of those answers that wasn't thought about too much; and who knows who even answered the question.

[JDRook]

That doesn't really fit how the rule is written, although there is room for different interpretations. Most attacks require an Attack Check and an Effect Check; Elongation specifically states it grants bonus to the "grab check" and I would read Grab Check as the Effect and therefore the DC of the attack, meaning that Elongation would make Grabs more effective but not more accurate.

There are exactly 5 instances in the Deluxe Handbook of the phrase "grab check": 2 refer to Fast Grab allowing a free action Grab Check, 1 for Elongation, one for the Grab-based Flaw, and one in one of the adventures. None of these seem to suggest that Grab Check is an Attack Check as well as an Effect Check.

I officially disagree with that letter and the Hero Lab implementation it supports.

[Aerlock]

I tried asking who it was that gave the answer but all they said was "the developers". I suppose I could try to press them on the issue but I figured that since some of the developer folks are on here this might get clarification without having to go through wolf lair. So if anyone that reads this has an in with the GR folks, do you think you could pass it up the chain?

- Aerlock

Edit: FYI I disagree with this ruling as well which is why I'm still poking at getting an answer.

[Monolith]

I tried asking who it was that gave the answer but all they said was "the developers". I suppose I could try to press them on the issue but I figured that since some of the developer folks are on here this might get clarification without having to go through wolf lair. So if anyone that reads this has an in with the GR folks, do you think you could pass it up the chain?

- Aerlock

Edit: FYI I disagree with this ruling as well which is why I'm still poking at getting an answer.

Since no one from Green Ronin has answered game questions on the forum in years just make a gm's decision and decide for yourself. I vote not for both attack checks and grab resistance checks.