Subtle II

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Doctor Devious
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Re: Subtle II

Postby Doctor Devious » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:05 am

Indeed it is.
I'll get my coat!

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Re: Subtle II

Postby Kinematics » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:00 pm

Been thinking about this a bunch, and honestly finding the Subtle II descriptor really difficult to imagine even being possible.

The Subtle I check allows for a perception check, or "exotic senses", to be discovered.

  1. X-ray laser: exotic EM detection
  2. Mental attack: mental sensitivity
  3. Germ warfare: microscopic vision, biology expertise
  4. Nitrogen gas: chemical senses
  5. Poisoned business card: chemical senses, chemistry expertise
  6. Hidden blade: magnetic senses, martial arts expertise
  7. Etc, etc.

Basically, it seems impossible to have an attack that is at all 'knowable' that can't be detected by some form of exotic sense. About the only true undetectable attack would be something where it's impossible to know the attack even happened, such as some sort of time travel stunt (and even that's not guaranteed).

It would seem more reasonable to view Subtle II as the version where you need some sort of exotic senses to even tell it was used while still requiring the perception check, whereas Subtle I would be either a perception check or exotic senses that make it obvious.

If anyone can come up with any legitimately undetectable Subtle II attacks, please give an example. It would also have to be undetectable for every use (as opposed to, "Oh, now we know what the trick is and can see when they try it again"), since it's built into the power itself rather than being a surprise attack or whatever.

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Re: Subtle II

Postby Stigger » Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:27 pm

Well, you could have a blade that makes absolutely no noise when it strikes something, and absorbs any sound the target may produce when its struck, which would make it a Subtle 2 effect in regards to sound, which is pretty much how I think of most weapon effects when it comes to Subtle 1 or 2, that they're only really effective against a couple of senses, even when that isn't specifically ennumerated. Take a Silenced Gun, with respect to detecting it with hearing, it is indeed a difficult thing to notice, but to someone with Rapid Infravision, the bullet itself would probably be quite visible and not even vaguely subtle. About the only thing I can think of that would be a near complete Subtle 2 attack, nearly completely, would be a mono-dimensional speck that could affect the three-dimensional world in a destructive way, but even then exotic senses could conceivably detect it, with the right descriptors and a good enough check.

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Cosmic Entity
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Re: Subtle II

Postby FuzzyBoots » Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:55 pm

I would personally rule Subtle 2 as a combination of the two Subtle 1s, "Requires a special sense and requires a DC20 Notice check". Much like Concealment and being detected via non-accurate senses not Concealed from, there's probably a ridiculously high Notice check available, say DC 30. So it's still potentially detectable, but only if you're looking for the right thing and you are really perceptive (or lucky).

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Re: Subtle II

Postby SilvercatMoonpaw » Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:20 pm

I use Subtle 2 for effects that have emanation from the "originator". Narrative effects, stuff that can't be predicted by logic: wildly fortunate accidents for offense, highly improbable dodging and survival of attacks, pure dumb luck for enhanced skills.

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