Area Disarm

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Witchslasher
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Area Disarm

Postby Witchslasher » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:32 am

So a player of mine is in a hostage situation, multiple gunmen with hostages. He is trying to powestunt an area disarm off off his Move Object effect..

So would the ranged area burst be enough? Seems like that wouldn't be precise enough to just disarm, would he also need to get selective or the precise extra?

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Re: Area Disarm

Postby hypervirtue » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:49 am

Ranged area burst would be all that is required.

Move Object, unmodified, can be used to disarm targets as per page 171 of the Deluxe Handbook. As such once he applies "area" to it, then he indeed can make a disarm against all targets in the radius of his move object.

Precise would not be required at all.

Interestingly, however, He would "disarm" all targets in his area of effect. This could be problematic if there are police officers on the scene or if any of his companions utilize equipment or powers with the 2 point removable flaw.
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Witchslasher
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Re: Area Disarm

Postby Witchslasher » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:03 am

hypervirtue wrote:Interestingly, however, He would "disarm" all targets in his area of effect. This could be problematic if there are police officers on the scene or if any of his companions utilize equipment or powers with the 2 point removable flaw.


This is where it gets kind of weird... So it's not precise enough where he can only target select people, but it is precise enough where he targets just what they're holding...

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Re: Area Disarm

Postby hypervirtue » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:18 am

Yes.

This is because this game is an effect based system.

He's not "targeting the object in their hands" by the rules. He's targeting all targets in the area with a disarm effect. He's targeting the person, not technically what they are holding.
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Re: Area Disarm

Postby saint_matthew » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:53 am

Witchslasher wrote:So a player of mine is in a hostage situation, multiple gunmen with hostages. He is trying to powestunt an area disarm off off his Move Object effect..

So would the ranged area burst be enough? Seems like that wouldn't be precise enough to just disarm, would he also need to get selective or the precise extra?


No it does not require precise, you seem to be thinking of an area effect as filling an entire area, effecting everything within that area, which is not necessarily the case.

The problem here is you are trying to get us to do it backwards. Never ask what the effect can do for the descriptor, instead tell me what the power description is & we'll help you model the effect. Because you can have 2 completely identical effects, with 2 completely different descriptors & two completely different story issue.

My usual example is Mjolnir versus Mjolnir. One Mjolnir shoots lightning, the other one is thrown by Thor before magically returning to his hand.... They are both identical Blast 10 effects, but how they both work in practice are very different than the effect would suggest.
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Re: Area Disarm

Postby JDRook » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:48 pm

I agree, adding Burst Area to Move Object (which is already Ranged by default) should allow you to Disarm a group in that area. However, there's also the question of how to resolve the attack.

Disarm normally requires an attack check to hit followed by an opposed Str check. On the other hand, Area attacks are assumed to "hit" everyone in the area, with a Dodge check effectively replacing the attack check to allow the subject to halve the effect, and then rolling the resistance check.

To combine the two, I would think you'd have all targets do a Dodge check vs MO rank and then an opposed check vs either half or full MO dependent on Dodge success.

Keep in mind that as an Area attack it would be limited by PL and as a Ranged Disarm it would be -5 to hit unless you also have Improved Disarm which eliminates all disarm penalties. If you didn't have Improved Disarm, I'm not sure where you'd apply the -5. To me the most logical place would be the Dodge Check, which would effectively lower the MO effect by 5. As an example, for a PL11 character stunting an Area Disarm, the MO rank would cap at 11, which would force a Dodge Check of DC16 (base 10 + MO rank -5 for ranged disarm) and then an opposed check vs MO 11 or 5 (half rounded down).

This would generally work best against human-range minions around half-PL, but would likely fail versus any opponents on par with the PC. In any case, I would highly recommend using the Improved Disarm Advantage to avoid the penalty and its ambiguous use in this case. If the PC doesn't have this Advantage, there are two ways to get it: if you allow Enhanced Advantages as part of a power stunt, just lower the MO rank if need be and throw it in there; otherwise it could be done as a Heroic Feat in exchange for a Hero Point.
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Re: Area Disarm

Postby FuzzyBoots » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:08 pm

2E Ultimate Power also introduced the idea of "targeted" area attacks where you make a single roll (can use attack maneuvers to change, but no criticals) and then apply it against everyone in the area. I think that would be a fair way to handle it.


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